What the F@!&* is happening with Arbitration

[slowtation capt]

Barely a word if anything on whats happening. Is the Arbitrator making his ruling? Is he still having "meetings"?

What is happening?? It is deafening silence.

 

[shanes123]

When something raises the WTF flag. That's pretty much your answer.

 

[doh]

They finished the last System Board meetings on the 18th or 19th. The arbitrator now has to go section by section until he has ruled on all the outstanding sections.

 

[Brit]

I'm sure the arbitrator is going to lube it up and ease it in like a gentleman.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I have a feeling we need to prepare ourselves for the worst. The union people ain't talking and the company (via their red label hounddogs) seem to be under the impression it will be months still before anything gets implemented if at all.

I recently ran into some pilots who did some FBO rot with someone in leadership and supposedly he said we know what he knows. Considering we don't know **** that doesn't say a whole lot about how well information is flowing.

Without naming names the last time I spoke with anyone on our negotiating committee (it's been a while) his response was how in the world did we expect them to get anything, any single thing, with the type of support they have received from the pilot group (myself included was the undertone) and the conversation was over. The only nugget I gleaned was it is 100% in the arbritrator's hands, nothing more the union could do or hail mary and the arbitrator is historically pro company in all his past decisions. His take as someone in the actual know was the company reniged at every turn of their promise no one will lose anything and the union was doing their best just to keep it there so don't expect any single improvements despite the fact they proposed them. The two sides were miles apart. Oh and basically kiss his ass if we don't like what we get and i've got to say I don't blame him a bit.

Got out the logbooks that night. Making sure I'm at the front of the exodus if not before.

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They finished the last System Board meetings on the 18th or 19th. The arbitrator now has to go section by section until he has ruled on all the outstanding sections.

Considering the timeline I'd expect an update from leadership of those facts, even if it is a brief one. EIther my company sources are correct they have been successful with more of their delay delay tactic or our leadership is awol and severely lacking.

It certainly will be interesting to find out which is true, won't it? I might be on my way out the door but at least I'd like to know who to flip the bird at on my way out.

 

[jetwash]

If Kenn wins in this arbitration he will then lose in the long term.

If the pilots don't see a pay raise there will be an exodus of pilots and it will be even harder to recruit new pilots considering the pay scales and working conditions. It will be a slow bleed for the company and the already low morale and customer service will continue to deteriorate to the point where the new Flexjet will be exposed as what it really is, the old Flight Options.

All I am seeing and hearing on the road is " I don't give a $hit anymore " which is not a good attitude to have in a service industry by your front line workers.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Jetwash I dont think Ricci cares. Flight Options or Flexjet - the name doesn't matter. The brand is simply a way for him to funnel investor and owner money into the sides of the DAC operation that are his real bread and butter. At Flexjet we have never cared much about the fact he was once sued for fraud over this very practice the last time he was forcibly removed as chairman. His genius response (it really was legendary) was to simply accquire enough position to nullify any finding of fraud.

We really should have paid attention a little more. It seems like every warning we got and dismissed reads more and more like a true story as every day goes by.

 

[warlord19]

Looks like the echo chamber is up and running at full blast....thought perhaps it had died.

And the mouthpiece of the IBT/POS i.e. Shanes321, is back in full glory as well.

Regards

 

[Imissmypilot]

Looks like the idiot chamber is back up and running at full blast....thought perhaps he had died.

And the mouthpiece of the CGF/POS i.e. Warlord 19, is back in full glory as well.

Regards

Fix it for you.

Seriously dude I thought for a second maybe you had died. The last time I saw you you were getting fat as hell. It's a shame to see you still refuse to educate yourself but that kind of follow suit for you doesn't it? Who needs an education when you can simply prostitute yourself for cash, right Warlord?

 

[1folinepilot]

Warlord19 did pork out over the last few years. I almost didnt recognize him till I saw him creeping on the front counter girls in cgf as he alwas did in the past. What a fine example of leadership. Do as I say not as I do as the rules do not apply to me is his motto

 

[warlord19]

Seriously dude I thought for a second maybe you had died. The last time I saw you you were getting fat as hell. It's a shame to see you still refuse to educate yourself but that kind of follow suit for you doesn't it? Who needs an education when you can simply prostitute yourself for cash, right Warlord?

Thanks for the kind words, minions. Actually, I've dropped about 12 pounds in the last 12 months, and plan to lose even more.

Doesn't sound like things are going real well for you guys, but there are some great opportunities in the marketplace now for those who chose to take advantage of them. Guess we'll see.
Regards

 

[Imissmypilot]

Thanks for the kind words, minions. Actually, I've dropped about 12 pounds in the last 12 months, and plan to lose even more.

Doesn't sound like things are going real well for you guys, but there are some great opportunities in the marketplace now for those who chose to take advantage of them. Guess we'll see.
Regards

Ha - 12 pounds? Far from your needed goal but recognizing a strong dose of reality has never been your strong point, has it?

As for your other remarks yet another example of how you can't parse reality from your master given narrative.

The difference between you and me is I owe allegiance to no one. While i support the union (who wouldn't at this point in the game after seeing how Ricci will run this company and our carreers into the ground if it makes his personal pocket a little heavier) I am far from a minion.

I've been just as critical of our union "leadership" as anyone and am far far removed from any power structure to the point other than paying dues, on the road you wouldn't know me from the next guy unless I chose to discuss it with you. As a result I probrably get more information than you do. And the fact regular pilots feel this way should worry your master.

I respect the extreme workload they've undertaken but I recognized from the get go it was a fool's errand to publically go up against this management team. I would say my number one complaint about our union "leadership" is that they weren't smart enough to recoginize this basic fact and were committing to what amounts to career suicide. Sure they have balls of steel and my respect for that but I've always recognized they weren't ever going to outwit or outplay the puppet master.

Speaking of puppets, How does it feel Warlordy to have your wallet so deep inside your throat you have to do unspeakable things to fill it?

You're right the marketplace is ripe. We've already suffered tremendous losses. Get ready to lose more.

Who do you think will pay the price for management incompetence? You're too far removed from the bubble of power. ****, you are so insignificant they didn't even have you show up at negotiations and they allowed just about any pro management douchebag in the room to testify if they thought it brought them an ounce of favor. Your days are numbered Warlord. Maybe it's because you're expendable or maybe it's because that clot will finally bust through from your huge gut to your huge jowl but either way you'll just be a thing of history.

 

[Praetorian]

I've been just as critical of our union "leadership" as anyone and am far far removed from any power structure to the point other than paying dues, on the road you wouldn't know me from the next guy unless I chose to discuss it with you. As a result I probrably get more information than you do. And the fact regular pilots feel this way should worry your master.

I respect the extreme workload they've undertaken but I recognized from the get go it was a fool's errand to publically go up against this management team. I would say my number one complaint about our union "leadership" is that they weren't smart enough to recoginize this basic fact and were committing to what amounts to career suicide. Sure they have balls of steel and my respect for that but I've always recognized they weren't ever going to outwit or outplay the puppet master.

What a callous statement. Imagine if all pilots, past present and future, held this view? Resistance is futile. Organizing is "career suicide". We'd all be on our knees to management. I think you have to put what our union has and hasn't accomplished into historical context to understand why its been going the way it has.

We have a company management which has been willing to spend almost any amount of money, in an ongoing attempt to exterminate our union. On top of this, over half the combined pilot group has not lifted a finger to support the union. And we've had sycophantic pilots who have actively worked to thwart the union's efforts.

It is not normal for pilot's unions and management teams to settle their differences in federal court, let alone federal appellate court. This has historically been reserved for extreme circumstances, but at our company it has become the norm. It is not normal for companies to purchase other similarly sized non-union companies and shift all resources to them in an attempt to bust the union at their existing company. It is not normal to forgo acquiring a company and all the market share it brings with it, because it's pilots are unionized, effectively tossing those pilots out onto the street. It is not normal for pilots to have to interview for higher paying positions within the company, with complete disregard for seniority. It is not normal for management teams to become so myopic with regard to fighting the pilots union that they ignore a looming pilot shortage and allow as many as twenty aircraft to go un-crewed on any given day and in the process overworking the remaining pilots, effectively pushing them toward the door. Yes, even setting aside the vengeful furloughs, hundreds have left since the acquisition.

All of this is worthy of finding its way into the history books and it's been happening to us. I guess sometimes you don't really see it when you're living it. Some day it will be said by pilots somewhere, "Ya know it's bad right now, but not as bad as it was at Onesky."

 

[Imissmypilot]

Pretorian notes taken and while they are good points they simply underscore what we are up against and the fact pilots who have the gall to openly oppose the king will be forever punished. Case in point, these guys are getting shafted at recurrent with horrible sim times, considerably undermatched NFPs and close to unreasonable scenarios (I heard it was a dual engine failure on no flaps landing on contaminated runways . **** me if that's even close to a reality based scenario). I thank these guys for a valiant effort on my behalf but it is a risky if not impossibly risky battle.

Anyway I came on here to post that I spoke with someone in the know. They are in a holding pattern waiting on a final decision from the arbitrator after several successive and succesful stalls by the company. They aren't saying anything because there's nothing to say and loose lips sink ships as far as any appeal recourse they might have.

I was told to brace for impact. YMMV but I took this as a less than fruitful anticipated outcome for the union.

With the lack of unity that sounds about right. We really have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[doh]

There were still eleven (or was it thirteen) disputed sections after all was said and done. How long do you think it takes to write a ruling AND a reason per section? I say and a reason because every arbitration I've ever seen has a justification for the ruling. I've no idea when his ruling will appear, but it seems to me he has a lot of writing to do.

 

[jetwash]

How will the ruling be handed down?

Will he just e mail the finished contract to the company and Union?
if so I assume that it will be posted and sent out right away since it is his decision.
I am sure a lot of questions will arise after it is out and has been read.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I trust my source when he says they have no clear indication of how he will rule and the smart move is to just wait and not piss him off by injecting an interpretation based on guesses.

To me the lines in between are indicating he has not yet ruled.

What's the adage about jury trials? Maybe this is a good thing. If union leadership says get ready for disappointment maybe the extra time is indicative he has not really decided on a solution. I will say though can you imagine how pissed we will all be with management if we waited 10 months for them to get everything they asked for? It's a gamble for both sides at this point. If Ricci is smart he shouldn't look for total victory here.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

If Fishgold does his job, neither side will be happy. That will give leverage to the Section 6 negotiations.

 

[Imissmypilot]

If Fishgold does his job, neither side will be happy. That will give leverage to the Section 6 negotiations.

If Fishgold adds Red Label to the mcba there will be no section 6 negotiations because the company will have gotten all it needs to continue forward with their plans to screw the rest of us. All of the rest is icing on the cake: they don't need it or require it for the master outline to continue. This is all about Red Label and always has been. If you can't see that then you haven't been paying attention. Red label isn't just a marketing plan, Red Label is Ricci's way to revolutionize the industry and decimate the union structure of aviation at least in the private sector.

If Red Label is a part of this mcba I don't see any other option then to march it right back to Judge Gwin for an appeal on the grounds Fishgold didn't merge the contracts yet rather added to them. And maybe that's Fishgold's plan after all and just needed to kick the can down the road. So we'll have more time waiting, more appeals that drain our coffers, more months at Flexjet without a real contract. Yippee.

That's one ****y plan. Hope I'm wrong and we're surprised Red Label will not be included in this contract.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

He can always put red label in but require it to be done by seniority. That keeps it for management and also gives it to the Union.

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And doing it by seniority would then allow furloughs if ever needed to be done in a correct manner.