What the 717 leaving means

[Lear70]

The over staffing issue? That's easy. Lines are diluted down to guarantee. An extra 500 FO's on reserve, equals little if any premium time available even in the summer for most bases.

That's what I've been telling our guys: 2-3 years after integration is complete just to balance the staffing for attrition, no upgrades during that time, unless they really DO pull the trigger on large scale growth at 15% ROIC.

It is what it is. I can see a lot of Caribbean expansion possible in the near future... IF they want to. Hope they do, for all our sakes. Til then just along for the ride. Can't complain, doesn't do any good anyway. Just having fun and living life. :beer:

 

[PanPan]

An early out option in SWAPA's next contract could solve a lot of these problems.

 

[fam62c]

An early out option in SWAPA's next contract could solve a lot of these problems.

It seems when airlines try this with pilots they get very few takers. Really senior pilots are essentially semi-retired anyway if they want to be between schedule flexibility, vacation and use of accrued sick leave.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

10 year base/seat protection in an ATL base! SWA pay rates effective on ratification!!...during the run up to SL9 vote, you were one of the most vocal critics on this forum...often using condescending retorts as argument (example above)...your are revising history to your view point...ratification of SL9 would have made it very expensive for SWA to divest the 717...SL10 (which was voted in by a 85% majority) gave AAI more seniority at the expense of base/seat and pay protections...fact not snide retort...

Rumor has it that VdV advised GK that SWA could not afford SL9 (snap up pay immediately for AAI pilots), when the MEC voted it down it was not just the SWA pilots that were relieved...

ALL SWA pilots will feel the pain of the 717 going away...as former AAI pilots become SWA pilots by 01JAN2015, with out bringing airframes, line totals will be diluted as they are now on the AAI side...

Ironically, the decision of the AAI MEC to shoot down SL9, saved the company millions that will be paid by the AAI and SWA pilots for years to come...thanks ALPA for one of the greatest blunders in negotiating ever!

All the "protections" in the SL9 were "fleeting" (pun intended).

Again . . . you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not going to debate it with someone who wasn't here. Sorry.

Don't you have a hobby? A life? Something better to do? I know I do.

 

[27 driver]

An early out option in SWAPA's next contract could solve a lot of these problems.

I bet an early out gets less than 10 takers. You are talking about the most senior guys at the top of the pay scale working a part time job. Unless the offer was huge it will not have an affect on over staffing issue. Plus you are talking about guys who primarily thought they had to retire at 60 and got a 5 year income boost. They already choose to stay. What makes you think that will change now?

 

[humveedriver]

I bet an early out gets less than 10 takers. You are talking about the most senior guys at the top of the pay scale working a part time job. Unless the offer was huge it will not have an affect on over staffing issue. Plus you are talking about guys who primarily thought they had to retire at 60 and got a 5 year income boost. They already choose to stay. What makes you think that will change now?

Offer the senior or near retirement pilots at AT an early out package. That would thin the ranks and take some pressure off the junior FO's. If it meant not commuting, not having to go through SWA training or a chance to do something different, who knows. Wait, that actually makes sense. So it won't happen.

 

[madjack]

Don't you have a hobby? A life? Something better to do? I know I do.

There you go again...

10 year seat/base fence and SWA pay...that sounds like real money and protection as compared to SL10...

I am glad the MEC voted to not send SL9 to the mbrship, it may have passed both sides.

What I don't get now is the complaint from the AAI side that they never saw the -717 going away...as soon as SL10 was ratified (with absolutely no protections for AAI pilots and therefore no restrictions on SWA) the 717 was doomed.

 

[humveedriver]

Don't you have a hobby? A life? Something better to do? I know I do.

There you go again...

10 year seat/base fence and SWA pay...that sounds like real money and protection as compared to SL10...

I am glad the MEC voted to not send SL9 to the mbrship, it may have passed both sides.

What I don't get now is the complaint from the AAI side that they never saw the -717 going away...as soon as SL10 was ratified (with absolutely no protections for AAI pilots and therefore no restrictions on SWA) the 717 was doomed.

It really doesn't matter anymore. The planes are going and we pilots (both SWA and AT), will be the ones who's QOL is most effected by it. SWA is taking over alot of our west coast operations (above the wing) so thats cool. A few CSR's mentioned they like the assigned seating. 6 months ago GK told the investment community that codesharing with AT wasn't a priority. Now they "cracked" the code on it and SWA will start codesharing with AT next year. This whole thing is a bit like Texas weather...

 

[DonVerita]

...the AAI side gambled away the base/seat/pay protections for more seniority... Which they got...

Wrong. But you keep telling yourself that.

To "gamble away" as you say, for more seniority would mean that achieved seniority would be fair and equitable for that which was given up. That fair and equitable part never saw the light of day.

I'll give you an example. For all 3 of the "gambled" items you mentioned above, plus 1-for-1 furlough protection to boot, I gained a total of (9), yes...NINE seniority numbers. Do you think that was a fair trade or would you agree that it was more of a shotgun wedding?

 

[madjack]

DV,

Your MEC did not let SL9 see the light of day...even after the NC agreed to its terms...ALPA AT was convinced that turning down SL9 without a mbrship vote would yield a better result...a big mistake...fast forward and the 717 are going away...now the AAI side wants displacement rights, GMAFB, you had pay/seat/base protections in SL9, all gone because of your MEC's decision...but you gained 9 seats...