What the 717 leaving means

[Spud]

The Q/A above stands by itself, no date of execution noted, no lease intention noted, when it happens, they bid system.

So Capt's of displaced A/C will bid for whatever they can hold system wide?

Works for me, but I think the no Airtran Capt's before 2015 crowd will be a little bummed.

 

[madjack]

Move on, the folks defending this issue on the AT side are the same geniuses that supported no mbrship vote for SL9...understand this claim will deflect the heat they must be feeling from their fellow AT pilots.

 

[Lear70]

Lear:

Completely false.

Then where else, pray tell, does the process for our pilots and where they will be assigned get spelled out other than the Seniority Integration Agreement, which is made up of 5 documents, including our Side Letter, your SL10, the SIA letter and attached Q&A's, the ISL, and the Dispute Resolution letter?

That's what I thought.

This is an answer in the joint SL10, it does not get any clearer on what happens if the 717 is replaced with another jet.

We didn't get to vote on SL10. However, the answer to this issue will come out in Arbitration. It's not as clear as you think.

Not much else to say until Arbitration.

 

[Lear70]

Move on, the folks defending this issue on the AT side are the same geniuses that supported no mbrship vote for SL9...understand this claim will deflect the heat they must be feeling from their fellow AT pilots.

Don't know what you're hearing, but there is no heat on this side, or there would still be recalls going on.

The membership fully supports this grievance, regardless of what SWAPA is telling you. If they didn't, again, there would be recalls going on to stop this grievance process, and there's not even a hint of that.

Your intel is incorrect.

 

[madjack]

"The membership fully supports this grievance"

I never said it wasn't a good deflection...but the "situation" that the AAI pilots find themselves in now is the result of actions (or inactions) by the AT MEC, not business decisions of SWA or the desire of SWAPA to adhere to the provisions of SL10...I don't expect you to accept this fact...

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, you bark on your side of the fence, we'll bark on ours, someday everyone will be friends and sniffing butt in the park.

 

[roughneck]

Then where else, pray tell, does the process for our pilots and where they will be assigned get spelled out other than the Seniority Integration Agreement, which is made up of 5 documents, including our Side Letter, your SL10, the SIA letter and attached Q&A's, the ISL, and the Dispute Resolution letter?

The airplanes are going away on the AirTran side of the fence. The ALPA CBA spells out how displacements will be handled while you are an AirTran pilot.

Those pilots will come to SWA in time and go through training then bid any vacancies in our system that they are eligible to hold based on system seniority per the SIA.
The only vacancies they will be eligible for until 2015 are 737 F/O seats.

That is what your group voted for.

 

[humveedriver]

It wasn't much of a vote for either side. Those who like to say to say "you voted for it" are out to lunch. Everything about this deal was forced on both sides. Which makes me laugh. Because you would think that SWA management was trying to avoid a USAir/AmWest scenario, but they effectively created one.

 

[madjack]

BS...your transitioned pilots say differently...

 

[humveedriver]

Good for them. But I have spoken with many SWA pilots on overnights and on the j/s who were told by management that you guys should take the offer and not go to arbitration. I will not dispute that our union completely imploded during the negotiations. If that's the general sentiment our transitioned pilots are referring to.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, you bark on your side of the fence, we'll bark on ours, someday everyone will be friends and sniffing butt in the park.

LOL - true dat... :beer:

 

[717capt]

I've been reading this thing for a few days now and I really don't see what everyone is getting all excited about. This grievance, complaint, whatever you wanna call it was filed on behalf of the top 200-250 maybe 300 AirTran guys. Namely the senior Capt's. It doesn't affect the mid level and junior AirTran guys or any sw guys one bit. There won't be a change in the sli. There wont be a re-bid, re-doo, do-over of the transition bid. That's done and agreed too.

I think what the crux of the argument is, is that our side says we were told by sw management that the 717's would stay until the leases ran out. 2017-2024 time frame. So everyone senior bid accordingly. Notice I said senior. mid-level and junior guys know how bad they got screwed over, but that's another thread.

Your side says don't believe anything our management says.

Ok cool. so we file a grievance and let the process play itself out. If we lose, nothing changes. If we win, nothing changes. All we can hope for is that some sort of $$$ award is issued to the capt's that will lose their seat over the next 2 years, that they would've kept if the 71's would've stayed. I don't think that anyone is looking for SW cap't pay. Top level AirTran cap't pay would be just fine with me. Our 13-15 year top end cap't payscale is more than top end sw fo pay scale anyway. Yeah I know, I know, line degredation, min guarantee... that's another argument. Besides, in 2015 (that's a short 2 years away) everything will work itself out.

Anyway just sayin.

 

[madjack]

717CP,

The senior 717 CPs becoming SWA FOs will cause displacements on the SWA side...we need an ATL domicile...

 

[717capt]

madjack,

ok you got me there. I agree. we do need an atl domicile. From what I'm hearing, one's in the works.

 

[Daddy]

I think what the crux of the argument is, is that our side says we were told by sw management that the 717's would stay until the leases ran out. 2017-2024 time frame. So everyone senior bid accordingly. Notice I said senior. mid-level and junior guys know how bad they got screwed over, but that's another thread.

Your side says don't believe anything our management says.

Get used to management deception as it is a fact of life in this industry and SWA is no different. This is not the old SWA...they are like any other management team. They still pay lip service to the "luv" concept but it is basically dead here. Great place to work still (for now) but definitely not the same SWA anymore.