What the 717 leaving means

[madjack]

So yes, it "technically" would come at the expense of SWA pilots upgrading, but only those who weren't supposed to upgrade with this deal to begin with. Fair is fair, you keep your CA seats you were expecting to get when the SIA was signed, we keep ours we were expecting to keep"

And here is where the rubber meets the road...the agreement inked (SL10) was based on AAI having airplanes they now will not bring over...the 717s... When a 717 goes away, that seat goes with it (remember your argument during negotiations that you were bringing planes and therefore seats to the deal)...you cannot have it both ways, now that the airplanes are not coming over, the CP seats no longer exists...

That is why base/seat and pay protections in SL9 would have come in handy now that the company has made a business decision to lease the 717s to DAL during the transition.

The details of the agreement may become moot if the transition schedule is not completed by 01JAN2015 and 737s/717s are still on the AAI side of partitiion...but assuming it gets done...the agreement states no AAI pilot may hold the left seat until after 01JAN2015, and then he/she can bid CP if their seniority can hold it and there is a CP vacancy...

 

[Lear70]

So yes, it "technically" would come at the expense of SWA pilots upgrading, but only those who weren't supposed to upgrade with this deal to begin with. Fair is fair, you keep your CA seats you were expecting to get when the SIA was signed, we keep ours we were expecting to keep"

And here is where the rubber meets the road...the agreement inked (SL10) was based on AAI having airplanes they now will not bring over...the 717s... When a 717 goes away, that seat goes with it (remember your argument during negotiations that you were bringing planes and therefore seats to the deal)...you cannot have it both ways, now that the airplanes are not coming over, the CP seats no longer exists...

Ah, but now, because of our 717's going away, you will be retaining your 737 classics, whereas before you weren't going to.

That was part of the basis of the negotiations for the Captain seats we retained. You had a retirement schedule of Classics and our 737's netted you XXX number of additional Captain seats than your pilots expected before SWA acquired us.

Those Classics would NOT be staying if our 717's weren't going. And now you want THOSE Captain seats, too.

This all goes to expectations when the SIA was inked. The deal was structured to net SWA pilots XXX number of CA seats and for AAI to retain XXX number of CA seats.

SWA management changed the playing field, and we are simply trying to retain the expectations of both pilot groups in terms of number of Captain seats that both parties agreed to.

You can't have your cake and eat ours, too.

 

[Phlintstone]

MJ,

Explain how, in your opinion, SL9 provided seat/base protections...

 

[madjack]

So conversely when an airplane is purchased/retained that CP seat is added/retained and as per SL10 that seat will be manned by a SWA pilot (vs AAI pilot) until after 01JAN2015.

My point is when you gave up the protections of SL9 (for seniority), you opened the door for SWA to get rid of the 717 sooner than later, and a grievance now is too late...

 

[madjack]

"Explain how, in your opinion, SL9 provided seat/base protections..."

A 10 year fence in ATL (and a guaranteed ATL base)

All CP seats/slots (700ish) protected for 10 years

snap up pay at signing

 

[Lear70]

All CP seats/slots (700ish) protected for 10 years

That's not the entire story. Those seat protections went away every time there was a seasonal reduction in the total number of CA seats.

In other words, every time you flexed down in CA seats, which SWA historically does regularly, our junior CA's were displaced and your FO's senior to them got the seats when the staffing went back up. That would have continued until only our CA's who could hold them by straight seniority were left.

There was no first right of return out of seniority for those lost seats to protect them.

As for the CA seats and the DR, we're just going to have to agree to disagree and let the arbitrator figure it out.

 

[madjack]

There was no first right of return out of seniority for those lost seats to protect them.



There is still no right of return in our CBA...maybe when you get over to our side Lear you can use some of your energy to get that piece added...

Only seen a reduction in CA seats (total) once since I have been here, after the great recession...11 years

 

[humveedriver]

There was no first right of return out of seniority for those lost seats to protect them.



There is still no right of return in our CBA...maybe when you get over to our side Lear you can use some of your energy to get that piece added...

Only seen a reduction in CA seats (total) once since I have been here, after the great recession...11 years

But we don't have SL9. It like the 717s are history. Perhaps one reason why it is effecting you is because you went from years of good schedule and efficient trips as a senior FO to a junior Capt on reserve? I can see how allowing 250 AT pilots to upgrade would slow things for you. And keeping the 717s would have helped you in that department too.

 

[Ty Webb]

This thread demonstrates very clearly why the dispute resolution process exists, and why it is necessary for a neutral party to look at the facts and make a determination.... best just to let the process work as designed.

 

[madjack]

And keeping the 717s would have helped you in that department too.

It would have helped everybody...

Ty, I agree, we will never agree...but it is enlightening to see how far apart the sides are on this issue...