What Others Think of the DAL MEC

[FDJ2]

Remember, that acquisition led to ALPA's crown jewel of real estate, 1625 Mass. (two blocks from the Capitol building in Washington DC), being sold to pay for the DFR settlement.

That DFR settlement had nothing to do with seniority list integration. Next.

 

[FDJ2]

The pilots of DAL are being asked to sign a shtty 4-year contract with a 5% raise and that doesn't even kick-in until next year.

It's a letter of agreement, not a joint contract. It contains much more than just a 5% pay raise.

The pay increase doesn't kick in until the deal closes, because if it doesn't close, the LOA disapears.

Further, the 3.5% equity stake will probably be next-to-worthless when the vesting/ restriction period is up.

Yeah right. That's what they said about our claim. I think you should read some of the fine print on that equity.

How does that even keep up with inflation?

How do the current rates keep up with inflation?

The point is, this deal is a joke even for the DAL pilots, so what have you guys really gained here?

If it's a joke, then why are so many wanting the same deal?

DAL pilots should have locked arms with NWA crew and demanded more from mgmt.

The DAL pilots informed the NWA pilots of the negotiations, which had a 2 week timeline for completion, but a certain MEC Chairman took a vacation and so did a certain MEC negotiator.

The DAL pilots were not going to allow opportunity slip them by because a certain MEC doesn't believe in timelines.

 

[nwaredtail]

The pilots of DAL are being asked to sign a shtty 4-year contract with a 5% raise and that doesn't even kick-in until next year.

It's a letter of agreement, not a joint contract. It contains much more than just a 5% pay raise.

The pay increase doesn't kick in until the deal closes, because if it doesn't close, the LOA disapears.

Further, the 3.5% equity stake will probably be next-to-worthless when the vesting/ restriction period is up.

Yeah right. That's what they said about our claim. I think you should read some of the fine print on that equity.

How does that even keep up with inflation?

How do the current rates keep up with inflation?

The point is, this deal is a joke even for the DAL pilots, so what have you guys really gained here?

If it's a joke, then why are so many wanting the same deal?

DAL pilots should have locked arms with NWA crew and demanded more from mgmt.

The DAL pilots informed the NWA pilots of the negotiations, which had a 2 week timeline for completion, but a certain MEC Chairman took a vacation and so did a certain MEC negotiator.

The DAL pilots were not going to allow opportunity slip them by because a certain MEC doesn't believe in timelines.

I love it. The US economy is just now starting to show what a deep RECESSION we are entering and these guys actually think they will get raises, etc. I remember Richard Anderson giving us raises of about 10.5% or so when everyone else were frozen or starting pay cuts. Guess what, we gave it all back, PLUS. Yeah, thats right , Richard Anderson.

NWA is better on our own, but, if we are going to merge, DALPA better get of it's high horse and start to realize that the NWA pilots can and will wipe out any economic gain, in spite of itself.

Spare me the rhetoric about vacations, merger committee's etc. Anderson bought you off, rather easily I might add. Simple, simple people.

A pay raise, GMAB

 

[PCL_128]

That DFR settlement had nothing to do with seniority list integration. Next.

Don't bother the RJDC wankers with facts. They've never worried about them before.

 

[Draginass]

No furlough clause? . . . . . yea right. Not worth the paper it's printed on.

I love all the sunshine that Anderson is blowing up everyone's butt. In 9 months when the economy is in the dumper you can bet King Richard will be back saying "yea, but . . . .things have changed." In the meantime, all the bonus money will have been dispersed to the senior execs and gone gone gone. He'll starting parking 9's wholesale and a lot of "junior" people are going to get it in the neck.

 

[nwaredtail]

No furlough clause? . . . . . yea right. Not worth the paper it's printed on.

I love all the sunshine that Anderson is blowing up everyone's butt. In 9 months when the economy is in the dumper you can bet King Richard will be back saying "yea, but . . . .things have changed." In the meantime, all the bonus money will have been dispersed to the senior execs and gone gone gone. He'll starting parking 9's wholesale and a lot of "junior" people are going to get it in the neck.

Won't be just the DC-9, (still protected, what's left at least, under NWAALPA scope until the new contract is signed), also 767's and MD-88's , guaranteed.

 

[General Lee]

Won't be just the DC-9, (still protected, what's left at least, under NWAALPA scope until the new contract is signed), also 767's and MD-88's , guaranteed.

The 767s? Huh? You NWA guys always put them down, but they are very profitable, and apparently we have a STC waiting to put cargo doors on them if we want to, and send them to ANC. So, I would think those 742s will be gone faster. And, the MD88s can carry more pax, have very low lease rates (not free like DC9s though) and have FMS and autothrottles, which can help with higher gas compared to the "looking for a heading" DC9s. I think the DC9s and 742s would be the first to go, by a long shot.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PlaneDrvr]

The 767s? Huh? You NWA guys always put them down, but they are very profitable, and apparently we have a STC waiting to put cargo doors on them if we want to, and send them to ANC. So, I would think those 742s will be gone faster. And, the MD88s can carry more pax, have very low lease rates (not free like DC9s though) and have FMS and autothrottles, which can help with higher gas compared to the "looking for a heading" DC9s. I think the DC9s and 742s would be the first to go, by a long shot.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't have a dog in this fight, but just to help you out General, even though you seem to know everything. The 767 with a cargo door will NEVER go to ANC, as it is NOT a good long-range, heavy freighter, and will not carry the 'volume' because of its narrower fuselage. There are used 'intra-Asia' as freighters, ABX is operating a few of their for Nippon Cargo, as also there are some A300-B4 freighters used out there also. Why do You think that UPS and FEDEX operate 747s, (UPS has -400s/-800s on order), MD11 etc. on the trans-pac routes.

Again, don't see 767s with cargo doors doing ANC-NRT, but keep on talking.

Also, the 767s will start to go away when (and it will fly), the 787 comes online, as that is the replacement for the 767. So, the orders/options that NWA has, will be the eventual replacement for the DL 767. Boeing will even tell you that; the 787 was designed to be a long-range, widebody, medium size a/c to replace the 757 (etops) and the 767. So it is nice that NWA has the (orders/options)replacement a/c all lined up for YOUR 767s.

For what its worth.

DA

 

[Schwanker]

What really matters is if the entity will be profitable. With a "less than motivated" pilot group, you can bet you'll see A LOT of RED this summer.

This was all but guaranteed when DALPA decided to abandon the Northwest pilots and side with management. This won't be forgotten anytime soon. The "pay raises" will last right up to the courthouse doors when the new Delta can't pay its bills.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

.....Again, don't see 767s with cargo doors doing ANC-NRT, but keep on talking.

Also, the 767s will start to go away when (and it will fly), the 787 comes online, as that is the replacement for the 767. So, the orders/options that NWA has, will be the eventual replacement for the DL 767. Boeing will even tell you that; the 787 was designed to be a long-range, widebody, medium size a/c to replace the 757 (etops) and the 767. So it is nice that NWA has the (orders/options)replacement a/c all lined up for YOUR 767s.

For what its worth.

DA

FWIW, I think the Gen is a total idiot too, but UPS uses their 767's all over the Pac Rim.


___

To the NWA guys, so if we vote down this LOA, will you be happy?

 

[General Lee]

Don't have a dog in this fight, but just to help you out General, even though you seem to know everything. The 767 with a cargo door will NEVER go to ANC, as it is NOT a good long-range, heavy freighter, and will not carry the 'volume' because of its narrower fuselage. There are used 'intra-Asia' as freighters, ABX is operating a few of their for Nippon Cargo, as also there are some A300-B4 freighters used out there also. Why do You think that UPS and FEDEX operate 747s, (UPS has -400s/-800s on order), MD11 etc. on the trans-pac routes.

Again, don't see 767s with cargo doors doing ANC-NRT, but keep on talking.

Also, the 767s will start to go away when (and it will fly), the 787 comes online, as that is the replacement for the 767. So, the orders/options that NWA has, will be the eventual replacement for the DL 767. Boeing will even tell you that; the 787 was designed to be a long-range, widebody, medium size a/c to replace the 757 (etops) and the 767. So it is nice that NWA has the (orders/options)replacement a/c all lined up for YOUR 767s.

For what its worth.

DA

Thanks DA, you don't really know what you are talking about. First of all, UPS flies their 767-300ERs from ANC to KIX and to ICN. And, WE CURRENTLY FLY 767ERs from ANC to HKG. Did you know that? We fly them there regularly for MX, and guess what? We carry some cargo in them too. Yep. I see the trips in open time here in ATL.

Also, where is that 787 again? Still haven't seen one fly. Did you know we are getting winglets for our 767ERs? Why would we invest in those? Maybe because they will be around a bit longer. We have 59 767ERs flying now. How many 787s will NWA be getting when the magical bird actually flies? 18 on firm order, and some options that have not been exercised. We are also getting 20 more 777LRs (according to RA in one of his videos to employees about the merger). I wonder what they will REPLACE? Do you know? For what it's worth....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

FWIW, I think the Gen is a total idiot too, but UPS uses their 767's all over the Pac Rim.


___

To the NWA guys, so if we vote down this LOA, will you be happy?

Thanks for all your support, not. I don't care what you think. And, I just told that guy the same about UPS and their 767ERs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PlaneDrvr]

FWIW, I think the Gen is a total idiot too, but UPS uses their 767's all over the Pac Rim.


___

To the NWA guys, so if we vote down this LOA, will you be happy?

Didn't know that is true, but I wonder why UPS ANC is strictly an MD11 base, and not a 767 base???

 

[General Lee]

Didn't know that is true, but I wonder why UPS ANC is strictly an MD11 base, and not a 767 base???

I think they have INTL 757/767 bases in ONT and SDF, and they probably fly those routes.... and, thanks for acknowledging you were WRONG.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PlaneDrvr]

What really matters is if the entity will be profitable. With a "less than motivated" pilot group, you can bet you'll see A LOT of RED this summer.

This was all but guaranteed when DALPA decided to abandon the Northwest pilots and side with management. This won't be forgotten anytime soon. The "pay raises" will last right up to the courthouse doors when the new Delta can't pay its bills.

I don't believe the new 'entity' will be profitable for some time. Again, just my opinion, but a merger in this current economic situation does NOT make any sense for management unless they can 'cut' 5-15% out of the total capacity of the newly created carrier. That has been the normal result of most mergers in the past, regardless of overlap, and this economic environment is very challenging. The 'synergies' (on of management's favorite terms), are 2-3 yrs down the road, when Everything is 'fully integrated' however, in the meantime, the new co. incurs significant 'integration costs' (eliminating duplicate admin. offices, personnel, leases, etc), all of that cost money and you don't see the 'savings' right away.

Depending on how prolonged the 'economic downturn/recession' turns out to be; in about 12-14 mths. you could see significant cuts, furloughs, etc.

I don't believe it is a good time to 'merge' for pilots, may make sense to some managers and investors; but I believe it is the wrong time in the 'airline cycle' to merge.

I could be wrong, but if I am Right, will be back here in about 12-18 mths. to say, "I told you so."

Good Luck, you may need it.

DA