What Is This????

[FlyingFisherman]

How many of you guys work for good PT91 companies?

My gig right now is a pretty good one. I've since left the 172 operator and am now flying a Mooney in a fleet of one

 

[laser]

For the Record

Struts are wiped:
At the end of the day - not every leg.
At home base - never seen it done on the road.
Adds maybe 1 minute to the Postflight inspection (Oops! That's right. Some of you boys probably don't do those. That's what our maintenance techs are for. )

 

[G100driver]

Yep!

 

[dragland]

Well son after realizing that you have 700 hours let me ask you this. How much are they paying you? 24K...maybe. Do you realize that a king air 200 or C90 doesnt require a copilot? at 700 hours that's all you really are my boy....a radio operator, checklist reader airplane housemaid. I know a couple of young kids that right seat in king airs and pilatus and well at 500 hours that's all that they are actually qualified to do....so dont feel too proud now.

Dang, thats rough...
Well, actually they pay me quite a bit more than that and I sit left seat every other flight (obviously under CLOSE supervision of either one of the co-captains). I am by no means saying that I am ready nor would I feel comfortable flying single pilot (as if any insurance company in the free world would allow this) BUT, I am a protoge so-to-speak of the chief pilot and he wants me to gain as much practical experience as possible in the aircraft, not just be a gear-jerker. I have had a B200 initial and 2 recurrents so I feel (and so does the other 2 captains) that, with the proper supervision, that I can (and do) operate the aircraft safely. I am not a self-proclaimed super pilot, and did not intend on coming off like I am, just lucky to be where I am at (considering my low time). I have learned more in the couple hundred hours that I have flown a fairly complex plane than I could have ever gotten elsewhere. All I was eluding to in my post is that I think that if more pilots would put their egos aside and not look down their noses at a little housekeeping duties it might help their ensure their flight departments continued success. I am sorry if you feel I am not qualified to be where I am at but I did not intend to cause any bad feelings toward anyone and I would appreciate the same from anyone else. May the wind be on you tail during cuise and on your nose during landing.
dragland

 

[h25b]

What airplane do you fly? Do you ever use runways less than 8,000'?

He, like myself, is generally driving the Learjet 31A. In most cases anything over 4000' is plenty of runway. This of course is assuming you actually cross over the numbers at Vref. Being on speed is a pretty rare event for most pilots these days I realize. At some point over the years, Vref+10 has become the new 1.3 X Vso. We routinely go in to and out of 4000' in ours and it is no sweat and I can honestly say I use no more braking action than I would use on a 8000' runway.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Be careful with that kind of talk Bender. G200 and lots of others will inform you of how big of a loser and hack pilot you are for using the brakes as you have just described, ie the proper way. According to them, you are supposed to SLAM the brakes at the 1st sign of spin-up, not giving a $hit about the pax and their comfort, and make the 1st taxi way. Every time all the time. Use only that technique, and if you even think about trying to go easy on the equipment and help save a few bucks, you are even a bigger loser, as you are supposed to be concentrating on the airplane behind you and what they are going to be thinking if you don't get off the runway less than 10 seconds after you make contact with it. Remember, you ar enot suppose to be concerned about what is going on in your aircraft, you are supposed to be concerned about airplane behind you and thier safety. Shame on you Bender for thinking that using the T/Rs instead of the brakes is the proper way to do things. You are supposed to get all over the brakes ASAP and heat them up, so when you actually need them, they fade and the pedals go to the aft stops while you go off the end of the runway and apoligise to the crews behind you for not being professional. Do all that, then call for the EMER Evac.

Wow.

Its pretty scary that you fly aircraft (for a living?) and think thats how brakes work and how performance numbers are achieved. Your boss must have a real strong pimphand!

So, if you touch down and the TRs dont deploy you will burn up the brake energy and run out of pedal? thats interesting.

loser? hack? -- yup, you certainly are Hawker F/O....and add to it all, a DANGEROUS hack at that!

welcome back from exile, didnt take you long to make a complete fool out of yourself!

 

[HawkerF/O]

Wow.

So, if you touch down and the TRs dont deploy you will burn up the brake energy and run out of pedal? thats interesting.

See what I mean. Idiot can't even read. Where did I say that? G200, thought you were hanging out in the hotel room laughing at all the losers wiping down the struts????? Right? You really are as ignorant as you make yourself out to be.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You are supposed to get all over the brakes ASAP and heat them up, so when you actually need them, they fade and the pedals go to the aft stops while you go off the end of the runway and apoligise to the crews behind you for not being professional. Do all that, then call for the EMER Evac.

well, the above might refresh you memory....you posted it approx 24 hours ago.

Hawker F/O, are you retarded?

 

[HawkerF/O]

well, the above might refresh you memory....you posted it approx 24 hours ago.

Hawker F/O, are you retarded?

Well, Corky, since it was posted at 15:26 TODAY, looks like you are the retard. That was less than 4 hours ago. When you get on the little bus tomorrow, tell the driver and special "aide" that you do not know how to do simple subtraction.

 

[LRvsH25B]

Not to get into the middle of 2 children fighting, but I am trying to figure out as well how you got that out of what he posted. Maybe I am missing something. Thought the topic was about struts and grease!

So, if you touch down and the TRs dont deploy you will burn up the brake energy and run out of pedal? thats interesting.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well, Corky, since it was posted at 15:26 TODAY, looks like you are the retard. That was less than 4 hours ago. When you get on the little bus tomorrow, tell the driver and special "aide" that you do not know how to do simple subtraction.

OK. very well. my mistake on the time.

--back to the "lesson" you were giving us---

so what gives? explain that brake thing to me again. Im worried about them not working when I need them?

will they really go to the aft stops if I use them upon touchdown? and this "fade" thing? what is that..and what about this autobrake switch?

will my boss bitchslap me for using that?

 

[HawkerF/O]

OK. very well. my mistake on the time.

--back to the "lesson" you were giving us---

so what gives? explain that brake thing to me again. Im worried about them not working when I need them?

will they really go to the aft stops if I use them upon touchdown? and this "fade" thing? what is that..

will my boss bitchslap me for that?

I'm glad you finally asked. When I get back from Dinner, I'll honor your request.........

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Not to get into the middle of 2 children fighting, but I am trying to figure out as well how you got that out of what he posted. Maybe I am missing something. Thought the topic was about struts and grease!

sorry man, just read up a few posts where Hawker F/O comes in and gives us a lesson on brake energy and landing performance using TRs. Its all there...and its rather interesting...you see, if you touchdown and use the brakes instead of the TRs, not only will your boss bitchslap you for wasting money but you will "fadeout" the brakes and they will go to the "aft stops" and you will run off the runway in to the weeds. After dinner, he will explain it fully.

and the strut thing....I think the overwhelming decision is to go ahead and wipe away if you are a motivated team player with good work ethic..No harm in doing so, plus your mx techs might appreciate not having to get dirty themselves.

Remember, there no "I" in TEAM.





/

 

[SCT]

Kids....don't make me send you to your rooms without dinner!!

In my opinion you are suppose to use full brakes at moment of touchdown and then continue to drag both brakes on the taxi in.............because my company makes a/c brakes and we need a bigger airplane!!!!

Now, where did I put my beer-

 

[Pilot_Ryan]

Dang, thats rough...
Well, actually they pay me quite a bit more than that and I sit left seat every other flight (obviously under CLOSE supervision of either one of the co-captains). I am by no means saying that I am ready nor would I feel comfortable flying single pilot (as if any insurance company in the free world would allow this) BUT, I am a protoge so-to-speak of the chief pilot and he wants me to gain as much practical experience as possible in the aircraft, not just be a gear-jerker. I have had a B200 initial and 2 recurrents so I feel (and so does the other 2 captains) that, with the proper supervision, that I can (and do) operate the aircraft safely. I am not a self-proclaimed super pilot, and did not intend on coming off like I am, just lucky to be where I am at (considering my low time). I have learned more in the couple hundred hours that I have flown a fairly complex plane than I could have ever gotten elsewhere. All I was eluding to in my post is that I think that if more pilots would put their egos aside and not look down their noses at a little housekeeping duties it might help their ensure their flight departments continued success. I am sorry if you feel I am not qualified to be where I am at but I did not intend to cause any bad feelings toward anyone and I would appreciate the same from anyone else. May the wind be on you tail during cuise and on your nose during landing.
dragland

You go, boy... I like your attitude.

 

[HMR]

He, like myself, is generally driving the Learjet 31A. In most cases anything over 4000' is plenty of runway. This of course is assuming you actually cross over the numbers at Vref. Being on speed is a pretty rare event for most pilots these days I realize. At some point over the years, Vref+10 has become the new 1.3 X Vso. We routinely go in to and out of 4000' in ours and it is no sweat and I can honestly say I use no more braking action than I would use on a 8000' runway.

Let me get this straight; Bender Gonzales said to slow to 70-80kts using T/R's only then "gently apply brakes". Are you saying you can do this in 4000' in the 31A? Impressive.

Not sure what you mean about "most pilots" and Vref+10. Hasn't been my experience. Vref+10 will put you in the weeds at our home base as a Lear crew found out last year.

 

[jrbevis]

This post for some reason has pissed me off. Most of the replies dont make one bit of sence to me. If the boss says to wipe off the strut then do it, for what ever reason. I am young and havnt been in THIS buisness for long but I think... Oh screw it, by the sound of most of your posts not many of you would understand what I am trying to say. Actually the beer is whats making it hard to understand!

goodnight

ps

pilotchapin sounds like an ass!

let me ask you. Where did you start out? How much were you maing when you had 700 hours? I am glad I dont have to sit next to you!

 

[Gatorman]

Ya'know, you stick pushers just keep flying your junkers, I won't mind taking the money to overhaul your gear.
Don't you worry, I won't tell the owner that a little preventive maintenance could have kept their plane in the air instead of being down for MX for a week.

 

[h25b]

Let me get this straight; Bender Gonzales said to slow to 70-80kts using T/R's only then "gently apply brakes". Are you saying you can do this in 4000' in the 31A? Impressive.

Not sure what you mean about "most pilots" and Vref+10. Hasn't been my experience. Vref+10 will put you in the weeds at our home base as a Lear crew found out last year.

The 31A really is "overbraked," in other words, it has way more braking ability than it needs and you really never should end up all over them. Like I said, we go in to 4000' all of the time and we got about 420 cycles out of our last set of brakes because we fly on the numbers...

 

[501261]

I'm glad you finally asked. When I get back from Dinner, I'll honor your request.........

Wow, 7 days that's a long dinner. What happened, Googling "fadeout" didn't give you any good answers ?

 

[LRvsH25B]

Wow, 7 days that's a long dinner. What happened, Googling "fadeout" didn't give you any good answers ?

Was that really necessary? This topic was dead and gone. Most of us don't want to hear this crap. Hawker whoever and G whoever had both dropped it, why couldn't you? That's why it is so difficult to want to be a part of this forum, too many children like 501261 beating dead horses.

As for brake fade, are you suggesting that it is not a serious problem in aviation (autos as well)? Check in with the guys over at Carlsbad and get their thoughts on the issue. Geting on the brakes at high speeds will in fact cause brake fade, especially in heavy corporate jet aircraft. You might not hear about it alot, but do not think for 1 minute that it does not exist. Maybe you should try to listen and learn something instead of running your mouth about subjects you know nothing about. Personally, I have no problem with pilots flying in a conservative manner in order to aviod this from happening to them, but hey, that's just me. Flying with Carbon Fiber brakes is a great way to avoid "brake Fade", but steel brakes do not have that luxury.

Something from Google for you:
"Brake pedal fade can occur for two primary reasons. The most common is the over heating of the brake fluid to a point where the fluid actually boils and turns to gas. The other common scenario is the over heating of the brake pad friction material to a point where it simply disintegrate from the pad backing plate."

You see 501261, boiling of the brake fluid is not a good thing. The gas escapes off of the brake components, and because that gas can be compressed, when the brakes are applied, that now compressed gas creates a "glaze" between pads and disk, causing 0 (zero) friction. Friction is what causes that aircraft to slow or stop. Do I need to go on or have you now gotten the big picture. Never thought I would have to give dual over the internet!

I am not trying to be hard to get along with, but this should have been covered in basic "jet 101". Please drop this Topic, as everyone else seemed to but you.

 

[troy]

I am now dumber for reading 6 pages of garbage.

 

[Flyerjosh]

I am now dumber for reading 6 pages of garbage.

Agreed. But then again, there's a lot of that on this board...

FWIW, I wipe the struts from time to time, whenever it needs it. Also polish the chrome leading edges and TRs, typically once a month, maybe a bit more in the summer. (FLIX sucks... try Mother's Chrome Polish. Does a great job for 1/2 the price and you don't need an electric buffer)

We wipe down the airplane on a regular basis as well. I also load bags, arrange and serve catering, do revisions, clean windows and vacuum the interior. All of that and I still fly from the left seat from time to time.

My company doesn't have a mechanic. That's fine by me. When I need MX, I write it up and it gets fixed. If the airplane's dirty, I pull it out of the hangar on a nice day and spend the day cleaning her up. We have the nicest looking plane on the field (just about anywhere we go). If it's really bad, I enlist help. Sometimes they do the work for me (I usually have other jobs for them to do anyway and I like being outside).

If I need to do that to justify my salary, so be it. BTW, for those of you who are about to bitch about me cleaning, if you work out the flight time to pay ratio, I get paid roughly $355/flight hour to fly in a Citation... That's not too bad... even if I have to climb out of bed at 1130am to go out and wipe down the plane from time to time.

 

[AA717driver]

We have 'people' to wipe our struts. TC

 

[Gatorman]

FWIW, I wipe the struts from time to time, whenever it needs it. Also polish the chrome leading edges and TRs, typically once a month, maybe a bit more in the summer. (FLIX sucks... try Mother's Chrome Polish. Does a great job for 1/2 the price and you don't need an electric buffer)

We wipe down the airplane on a regular basis as well. I also load bags, arrange and serve catering, do revisions, clean windows and vacuum the interior. All of that and I still fly from the left seat from time to time.

My company doesn't have a mechanic. That's fine by me. When I need MX, I write it up and it gets fixed. If the airplane's dirty, I pull it out of the hangar on a nice day and spend the day cleaning her up. We have the nicest looking plane on the field (just about anywhere we go). If it's really bad, I enlist help. Sometimes they do the work for me (I usually have other jobs for them to do anyway and I like being outside).

If I need to do that to justify my salary, so be it. BTW, for those of you who are about to bitch about me cleaning, if you work out the flight time to pay ratio, I get paid roughly $355/flight hour to fly in a Citation... That's not too bad... even if I have to climb out of bed at 1130am to go out and wipe down the plane from time to time.

You go Booooeeey!

I like the last part best (snickering at the Gulfstream, Challenger, and Falcon crews)
Bwaaahaaaahaaaa!

 

[LegacyDriver]

I wipe off the "hub caps" on our birds because they look much better when shiny white (and nobody else will do it). That's the OCD side of my personality coming out I guess, but it lead to a question.

I have ceramic brakes on my cars because I hate cleaning brake dust out of the rims all the time. They are dust free and worth every penny. Why can't we install these on airplanes? Black brake dust everywhere is such an eyesore for some reason...

 

[Flyerjosh]

I wipe off the "hub caps" on our birds because they look much better when shiny white (and nobody else will do it). That's the OCD side of my personality coming out I guess, but it lead to a question.

I have ceramic brakes on my cars because I hate cleaning brake dust out of the rims all the time. They are dust free and worth every penny. Why can't we install these on airplanes? Black brake dust everywhere is such an eyesore for some reason...

There might be issues with rotation speeds for ceramic brakes? Since they would have to be bigger than car brakes, and the rotational/centripital forces greater, wouldn't there possibly be limitations?

Don't know, I just fly them (and clean them from time to time). But like my first flight instructor said- "If you don't look good doing what you do, why bother? Besides... it's all about the hair"

 

[LegacyDriver]

Good point. Wish we had a brake expert here to 'splain!

 

[Blackjet]

I wipe off the "hub caps" on our birds because they look much better when shiny white (and nobody else will do it). That's the OCD side of my personality coming out I guess, but it lead to a question.

I have ceramic brakes on my cars because I hate cleaning brake dust out of the rims all the time. They are dust free and worth every penny. Why can't we install these on airplanes? Black brake dust everywhere is such an eyesore for some reason...

Carbon Fiber brakes will take care of these issues. The problem for most is from an economic standpoint. A CL60 set of Carbon Fibers will set the owner back 100K. Are they worth it, yes, but explaining the difference for the $ can be tough to get across to a #s guy. Aside from cleaner wear, Carbon Fiber works very well when they get heated up and if used properely (such as fluid and continuous applications instead of jumping on and off of them while taxing as well as also riding them a little bit during taxi out to get them heated up) they will last forever. The real selling point is when they are used under rapid and heavy deceleration. Impressive!

 

[HMR]

Brake fade?

As for brake fade, are you suggesting that it is not a serious problem in aviation (autos as well)? Check in with the guys over at Carlsbad and get their thoughts on the issue. Geting on the brakes at high speeds will in fact cause brake fade, especially in heavy corporate jet aircraft.

Do you think crossing the fence at Vref+90 might've played a bigger role in the accident?