What Is This????

[suen1843]

Suen you ever fly externally loaded Propane bottles? God i allways thought if I crashed it would look like heroshima. Two fat boys strapped to the floats. eeeech

No...never tried that one but have seen it. Asked my buddy about it and he swore they were empty. Yeah...right. Empty bottles heading north.
But, I did fly a TwinBeech that had the JATO bottles installed. Always did wonder how big the boom would be if we ever crashed that one.

 

[HMR]

I'm a terrible airplane mechanic. My toolkit consists of a butter knife and a hammer. My boss hired me to fly the plane not fix it. I did take it upon myself to pick up the phone last week and call the same cleaning service that all of the other local dept's use. For $1225 they made our plane look alot better than I could've. They even got the struts.

BTW- What's the deal with this corporate board? Everytime a PT91 pilot posts about getting paid well or refusing to perform non-flying duties (i.e. preparing fruit trays, turning wrenches, wiping down struts) they get jumped on by a bunch of Frac, charter and/or 700hr pilots calling them "prima donnas". What's so bad about a company that hires pilots to fly, A&P's to wrench, someone else to clean and pays them all a good wage to do the job?

 

[FL420]

I have always wiped the struts on every a/c I have ever flown that had oleo struts. Sand and grit ruins seals and starts seepage which attracts more dirt and grit.

The last thing(well, ONE of the last things) I wanted to happen was a strut seal to blowout on touchdown coming aboard the boat. I am the one paying for the hydraulic fluid, seals, downtime and strut re-chroming on my own a/c so you bet I wipe them down when they need it.

Aircraft are the tools of my trade and I take care of my tools.

 

[Blackjet]

What's so bad about a company that hires pilots to fly, A&P's to wrench, someone else to clean and pays them all a good wage to do the job?

You're not seeing the whole picture here. For the most part, I don't think anyone is asking anybody to fly the airplane, fix it, and clean it. What's going on is the employer asking the pilot to "help out" a little bit with things that do not involve flying. As a corporate pilot, what's the difference in climbing into a dirty baggage area under the LH dirty engine of a BE40 to throw bags and wiping a sturt down. That whole area is filthy. If the strut needs wiped for preventaive MX, and it's something simple, then why not do what they asked? Refusing to do something like this one of those stories you hear about a guy that always says, "Well, that not my job". Refusing to do something like this is childish. I suppose you do not straighten up the cabin either when the passengers leave? THat's not for the pilots to do. That is a non-flying related item. That should be left for the cleaner or F/A, right? Why dont you tell the boss you are not going to do that either?????

It's getting to a unacceptable point where these guys can't find enough work ethic to help out a little when it's needed. Wiping off a strut at the end of a day is NOT unreasonable. Sand/dirt creates friction on a device that should operate in a smooth, fluid motion. So yes, it needs to be attended to.

There are many people on this board that understand that being a corporate pilot has little to do with actually flying and a lot to do with making sure the details are in order. If it were about flying, then move aside for the regional pilots flying 3 and 4 ILSs a day, 4 days a week, on 12 hour duty days. If you want to embarass yourself, try going up against one of those guys and you'll learn just what doing several ILSs a day does for instument skills.

It's funny how these types of "pilots" that refuse to do anything but come in, fly their trips then go home, while refusig to share the load of things that need to be done, ask for raises and are just in awe when it does not come through for them. At this point, in their eyes of course, it's become a matter of the company screwing them and they do too much around here to get treated like that. Blah Blah Blah

 

[FlyingFisherman]

I remember once shortly after upgrade training from First Officer to Captain on a 172 I wiped down the strut on the nosewheel. Allow me to tell you this in hopes it may save a life someday.



Our company had just purchased a new SP model and my FO hadn't had differences training yet so I was to conduct his IOE in the new fuel injected model. We got to V1 and the airplane began to shake. Being the level headed captain I increased back pressure and kept a little weight off the nosewheel while we rotated on our short 5000' runway.

Once airborne I began to troubleshoot with the landing gear system a bit. My FO suggested we cycle the carb heat but since he hadn't even been in a sim he didn't know that Cessna thought better of removing that feature. When he found out there was no carb heat...he was no longer a contributing member of the crew. So there we were, VFR in Class D airspace with an unknown landing gear situation.

We contacted the FBO Dispatch via radio and asked for the head mechanic. After pouring through pages of manuals on the ground and us reviewing the QRH and POH in the air we came to the conclusion that since we didn't have 3 green lights we needed to assume the nosewheel wasn't going to be there for us.

We informed the tower of our situation and circled the airport doing some climbs/descents to try to get ANY indication of the nosewheel in the cockpit. After an hour of burining off fuel we had nothing and the best decision at that point was to land.

We set up for the approach coming in on a pretty tight 3 mile final and tightened our seatbelts and cracked open the doors. I had my FO standby with the fire extinguisher that we'd unbuckled from the floor in case something happened. Flaps 20 at a mile final and we were comitted to land...the point of no return.

Over the numbers I pulled the power back and touched down mains first. As our airspeed slowed I kept adding back pressure until the elevator was nearing full deflection. The nosewheel had to come down and I did my best to make it a gentle touchdown. The shimmy was there with a lound what I'll call a "Clang." I cut the mixture, mags and master switch and when the airplane came to a stop we did an emergency evacuation (we were able to evacuate the airplane in under 60 seconds!) and we took cover in a ditch waiting for that sucker to explode.

Fortunately it never happened. The airplane was pulled into the hangar and the strut was refilled with fluid/air. While the mechanics were putting away their tools, I took a shop rag and wiped off the strut.

The end.

Seriously...fly safe out there.

Have you just looked at a strut and thought "thats pretty dirty!" You're in the hangar at 4:30 with passengers showing up at 5am. You wouldn't take a minute out of your busy day to help the image (a clean plane is a safe plane...don'tcha know?) for the people boarding because it's beneath you?

 

[BenderGonzales]

You know, it's not corporate but a lot of folks have "dirty jobs" out there. Years ago as a Jetstream 31 pilot i'd spin the prop 20 rotations after every leg (to cool the shaft).

A few years later as a Saab FO, I had to stick my hand up between the dirty, nasty gear-doors and find the little ring to pull to get them open. Then i'd insert the gear pins. (that was awful)

A few years later as an RJ pilot I'd climb back into the tailcone, stand underneath a dirty, oily, noisy APU and add oil to both engines using the RJ's onboard oil pump. Yuk!

I'd venture that most of us check the oil on our light-jets... on a windy day that can be messy!

Maybe we fill the coffee pot and spill sometimes as well.

(shrug) Just part of the job I suppose. Not the best part by any means.

The only time I ever did NOTHING but fly was when I worked for a major. We were prima-donnas to say the least. Nothing humbles you as much as a few furloughs.

Where's the rag... i'll wipe the struts for you.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

see we can all get along

lets not get crazy here!

you chumps wipe the struts and polish the spinners (good boys, good boys) -- I'll take my non team player attitude and bad work ethic and meet ya at the hotel.

 

[FlyingFisherman]

you chumps wipe the struts and polish the spinners

Hang on...

Those are two very different animals. Giving the struts a wipe versus polishing the spinners? 2 minutes as opposed to up to an hour. To do spinneres properly you need Flix, a good electric polisher and lots of shop rags. Of course when I was a line guy I used them as mirrors when I brushed my teeth, too.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hang on...

To do spinneres properly you need Flix, a good electric polisher and lots of shop rags. .

me thinks you just need a Mexican.


:beer:

 

[h25b]

We operate our Learjet 31A, and YES, wipe the struts upon return to base. It takes all of about 5 minutes and if you can't handle doing such a very small task for getting paid above industry average, hit the road... The next highest paying Learjet 31A position in the area starts its Captains out around 20K less/yr than what we start an F.O. out.

We've got a few good things to gripe about, but having to wipe the struts doesn't qualify...

I have spoken to many different maintenance and field reps. that verify this as a good practice. The department that the original poster was speaking of is Wal-Mart's. They've got issues like any other department, but having to wipe the struts ??? BFD...

Bottom line, it does make a difference and I'll bet there are at least 30 resumes in my briefcase of very qualified individuals that wouldn't mind in the least wiping the struts for a 20K raise, awesome 401K, and outstanding medical coverage while working 13-14 days/mo. with an average of about 2 RON's/mo.

 

[G100driver]

I did take it upon myself to pick up the phone last week and call the same cleaning service that all of the other local dept's use.

Hey, HMR quit lowering the bar will ya! Next time call your mechanic and tell him to pick up the phone! We pilots need to stick together and keep our profession professional! Next thing you know you will be servicing the lav!

 

[Flybet3]

lets not get crazy here!

you chumps wipe the struts and polish the spinners (good boys, good boys) -- I'll take my non team player attitude and bad work ethic and meet ya at the hotel.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! that's a good one.

 

[Flybet3]

me thinks you just need a Mexican.


:beer:

Hey watch it now, Mr. Gonzales and I "FIND THAT OFFENSIVE"

 

[Flybet3]

We operate our Learjet 31A, and YES, wipe the struts upon return to base. It takes all of about 5 minutes and if you can't handle doing such a very small task for getting paid above industry average, hit the road... The next highest paying Learjet 31A position in the area starts its Captains out around 20K less/yr than what we start an F.O. out.

We've got a few good things to gripe about, but having to wipe the struts doesn't qualify...

I have spoken to many different maintenance and field reps. that verify this as a good practice. The department that the original poster was speaking of is Wal-Mart's. They've got issues like any other department, but having to wipe the struts ??? BFD...

Bottom line, it does make a difference and I'll bet there are at least 30 resumes in my briefcase of very qualified individuals that wouldn't mind in the least wiping the struts for a 20K raise, awesome 401K, and outstanding medical coverage while working 13-14 days/mo. with an average of about 2 RON's/mo.

I do agree with that.....it actually takes me only about a minute or less to wipe down each strut. The longer you let them get dirty the more minutes you have to add to the cleaning. The best days is when it rains, you dont even need that much Hyd fluid.

 

[Flybet3]

Hey PilotChapin, dont feel bad you're just getting to old. You try to bend down to clean something and you might throw out your back...
hey check your PMs vato.

Well boys I love to stay and chat but I have an ingrown TOE NAIL that I have to get clipped out....I have a boo boo

 

[BenderGonzales]

yeah! I am offended! Bender Bending Unit Gonzales wipes struts for no meatbag!

Seriously though if you use brakes as INTENDED i/e use reverse thrust until you're slowing through say 70 or 80 knots and then lightly apply braking -- do NOT try to make the first taxiway -- then the darned things dont get that dirty anyway!!

Flybet, I feel your pain. I have to go get a mole on my stomach excised today. ACK! Gives me the willies just thinking about it. Getting old sucks

 

[Flybet3]

yeah! I am offended! Bender Bending Unit Gonzales wipes struts for no meatbag!

Seriously though if you use brakes as INTENDED i/e use reverse thrust until you're slowing through say 70 or 80 knots and then lightly apply braking -- do NOT try to make the first taxiway -- then the darned things dont get that dirty anyway!!

Flybet, I feel your pain. I have to go get a mole on my stomach excised today. ACK! Gives me the willies just thinking about it. Getting old sucks

Well like a wise man once said....

" I'm older, that means I am one day closer to death" Al Bundy.

 

[h25b]

I have to go get a mole on my stomach excised today. ACK! Gives me the willies just thinking about it. Getting old sucks

I had the same thing done about a year ago... It's no big deal. They will just numb the area with a small shot, pinch up the skin and slice it away. Then they just put some neosporin on it with a bandaid. Like wiping the struts, takes about 5 minutes and is painless.

The worst part is if you have a hairy stomach like me and they have to shave the area. You'll itch for a week. Also the biggest reason I hate gettin an EKG.

 

[BenderGonzales]

That doesn't make me feel even a LITTLE bit better! lol

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I don't think I wold be beneath such a chore if it took only a few minutes and I was treated well by the company and actually cared about the operation I worked for. Not a big deal.

 

[h25b]

That doesn't make me feel even a LITTLE bit better! lol

I didn't think it would...

Good luck, it really is no problem.. The worst part is seeing them place a portion of your flesh in to a plastic jar to send of for analysis.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I'm gonna cry like a little girl.

 

[Sim Sweat]

Some of the replies in this thread are pretty amazing, but then, some of them are intended that way too.

I wipe the struts. Not after every flight, but when I'm away from home, and they need it. I'll wipe the seats too, or anything else that tends to make the airplane look the way it should. Nobody's telling me to do that - I like what I'm doing, I'm flying nice equipment, and there's no good reason why I shouldn't. And I don't tell anybody else to do it. It doesn't soil my clothes or make me any less of a professional either.

Geez.

 

[h25b]

This thread has definately been enlightening. I guess just a little bit of extra effort is somehow out of the question these days. I can only hope that when/if I rise to the ranks of the heavy international jet operators I can rise above these trivial tasks.

Somehow though I suspect that I'll be under a G-V with my shop gloves and hydraulic fluid soaked paper towel scrubbing off the struts one day. Doing a little extra with attention to detail has never hurt anyone and unlike a lot of others I just look at as part of the job. This, "it's not my job" mentality is what I hated most about flying with the airlines. Some of you guys sound like union labor. Pitch in and get the job done. If wiping the struts saves just $1000/yr. it's worth it.

 

[Blackjet]

Doing a little extra with attention to detail has never hurt anyone and unlike a lot of others I just look at as part of the job. This, "it's not my job" mentality is what I hated most about flying with the airlines. Some of you guys sound like union labor. Pitch in and get the job done. If wiping the struts saves just $1000/yr. it's worth it.

If these guys are not getting credit for it (someone important does not know what "extra" work is being done to help save MX and $), they don't do it. The only one's I think are excused from this are the FRAC guys, as those planes get so used and abused, andything extra they do, the next crew will undo all their work.

H25B, your post is excellent and right on. Where is 2000flyer in all of this? He usually has a intellignet and professional POV.

 

[BenderGonzales]

He does? Have you ever actually READ any of his stuff? The guy can't sit down at his computer without offending a dozen people!

 

[HMR]

Seriously though if you use brakes as INTENDED i/e use reverse thrust until you're slowing through say 70 or 80 knots and then lightly apply braking -- do NOT try to make the first taxiway -- then the darned things dont get that dirty anyway!!

What airplane do you fly? Do you ever use runways less than 8,000'?

 

[HawkerF/O]

Seriously though if you use brakes as INTENDED i/e use reverse thrust until you're slowing through say 70 or 80 knots and then lightly apply braking -- do NOT try to make the first taxiway -- then the darned things dont get that dirty anyway!!

Be careful with that kind of talk Bender. G200 and lots of others will inform you of how big of a loser and hack pilot you are for using the brakes as you have just described, ie the proper way. According to them, you are supposed to SLAM the brakes at the 1st sign of spin-up, not giving a $hit about the pax and their comfort, and make the 1st taxi way. Every time all the time. Use only that technique, and if you even think about trying to go easy on the equipment and help save a few bucks, you are even a bigger loser, as you are supposed to be concentrating on the airplane behind you and what they are going to be thinking if you don't get off the runway less than 10 seconds after you make contact with it. Remember, you ar enot suppose to be concerned about what is going on in your aircraft, you are supposed to be concerned about airplane behind you and thier safety. Shame on you Bender for thinking that using the T/Rs instead of the brakes is the proper way to do things. You are supposed to get all over the brakes ASAP and heat them up, so when you actually need them, they fade and the pedals go to the aft stops while you go off the end of the runway and apoligise to the crews behind you for not being professional. Do all that, then call for the EMER Evac.

 

[HMR]

Just curious...

How many of you guys work for good PT91 companies? I'm surrounded by "dream job" operators and work for one myself. Every pilot I can think of was hired, in part, for their personality and team player attitude. No "Not My Job" types around here. Of course we straighten up the interior and make sure the galley is properly stocked before a flight. It's on the checklist just like verifying the fuel load. However, I can't say that I've ever seen another pilot at one of our local corp ops wiping down struts with gloves and hydro fluid or polishing bright work. I'll admit, though, I do occasionally see one guy polishing the rims on his SL500.

 

[HMR]

Be careful with that kind of talk Bender. G200 and lots of others will inform you of how big of a loser and hack pilot you are for using the brakes as you have just described, ie the proper way..

Hmmm... Our ref speeds range from 115-130kts and we land on our 4800' RWY without the slightest discomfort to our pax. Should we try slowing to 70-80kts using T/R's only before applying brakes, as you recommend? There are 30+ jet operators at our airport that would love to watch you demonstrate.