What Is This????

[LRvsH25B]

Wow, 7 days that's a long dinner. What happened, Googling "fadeout" didn't give you any good answers ?

Was that really necessary? This topic was dead and gone. Most of us don't want to hear this crap. Hawker whoever and G whoever had both dropped it, why couldn't you? That's why it is so difficult to want to be a part of this forum, too many children like 501261 beating dead horses.

As for brake fade, are you suggesting that it is not a serious problem in aviation (autos as well)? Check in with the guys over at Carlsbad and get their thoughts on the issue. Geting on the brakes at high speeds will in fact cause brake fade, especially in heavy corporate jet aircraft. You might not hear about it alot, but do not think for 1 minute that it does not exist. Maybe you should try to listen and learn something instead of running your mouth about subjects you know nothing about. Personally, I have no problem with pilots flying in a conservative manner in order to aviod this from happening to them, but hey, that's just me. Flying with Carbon Fiber brakes is a great way to avoid "brake Fade", but steel brakes do not have that luxury.

Something from Google for you:
"Brake pedal fade can occur for two primary reasons. The most common is the over heating of the brake fluid to a point where the fluid actually boils and turns to gas. The other common scenario is the over heating of the brake pad friction material to a point where it simply disintegrate from the pad backing plate."

You see 501261, boiling of the brake fluid is not a good thing. The gas escapes off of the brake components, and because that gas can be compressed, when the brakes are applied, that now compressed gas creates a "glaze" between pads and disk, causing 0 (zero) friction. Friction is what causes that aircraft to slow or stop. Do I need to go on or have you now gotten the big picture. Never thought I would have to give dual over the internet!

I am not trying to be hard to get along with, but this should have been covered in basic "jet 101". Please drop this Topic, as everyone else seemed to but you.

 

[troy]

I am now dumber for reading 6 pages of garbage.

 

[Flyerjosh]

I am now dumber for reading 6 pages of garbage.

Agreed. But then again, there's a lot of that on this board...

FWIW, I wipe the struts from time to time, whenever it needs it. Also polish the chrome leading edges and TRs, typically once a month, maybe a bit more in the summer. (FLIX sucks... try Mother's Chrome Polish. Does a great job for 1/2 the price and you don't need an electric buffer)

We wipe down the airplane on a regular basis as well. I also load bags, arrange and serve catering, do revisions, clean windows and vacuum the interior. All of that and I still fly from the left seat from time to time.

My company doesn't have a mechanic. That's fine by me. When I need MX, I write it up and it gets fixed. If the airplane's dirty, I pull it out of the hangar on a nice day and spend the day cleaning her up. We have the nicest looking plane on the field (just about anywhere we go). If it's really bad, I enlist help. Sometimes they do the work for me (I usually have other jobs for them to do anyway and I like being outside).

If I need to do that to justify my salary, so be it. BTW, for those of you who are about to bitch about me cleaning, if you work out the flight time to pay ratio, I get paid roughly $355/flight hour to fly in a Citation... That's not too bad... even if I have to climb out of bed at 1130am to go out and wipe down the plane from time to time.

 

[AA717driver]

We have 'people' to wipe our struts. TC

 

[Gatorman]

FWIW, I wipe the struts from time to time, whenever it needs it. Also polish the chrome leading edges and TRs, typically once a month, maybe a bit more in the summer. (FLIX sucks... try Mother's Chrome Polish. Does a great job for 1/2 the price and you don't need an electric buffer)

We wipe down the airplane on a regular basis as well. I also load bags, arrange and serve catering, do revisions, clean windows and vacuum the interior. All of that and I still fly from the left seat from time to time.

My company doesn't have a mechanic. That's fine by me. When I need MX, I write it up and it gets fixed. If the airplane's dirty, I pull it out of the hangar on a nice day and spend the day cleaning her up. We have the nicest looking plane on the field (just about anywhere we go). If it's really bad, I enlist help. Sometimes they do the work for me (I usually have other jobs for them to do anyway and I like being outside).

If I need to do that to justify my salary, so be it. BTW, for those of you who are about to bitch about me cleaning, if you work out the flight time to pay ratio, I get paid roughly $355/flight hour to fly in a Citation... That's not too bad... even if I have to climb out of bed at 1130am to go out and wipe down the plane from time to time.

You go Booooeeey!

I like the last part best (snickering at the Gulfstream, Challenger, and Falcon crews)
Bwaaahaaaahaaaa!

 

[LegacyDriver]

I wipe off the "hub caps" on our birds because they look much better when shiny white (and nobody else will do it). That's the OCD side of my personality coming out I guess, but it lead to a question.

I have ceramic brakes on my cars because I hate cleaning brake dust out of the rims all the time. They are dust free and worth every penny. Why can't we install these on airplanes? Black brake dust everywhere is such an eyesore for some reason...

 

[Flyerjosh]

I wipe off the "hub caps" on our birds because they look much better when shiny white (and nobody else will do it). That's the OCD side of my personality coming out I guess, but it lead to a question.

I have ceramic brakes on my cars because I hate cleaning brake dust out of the rims all the time. They are dust free and worth every penny. Why can't we install these on airplanes? Black brake dust everywhere is such an eyesore for some reason...

There might be issues with rotation speeds for ceramic brakes? Since they would have to be bigger than car brakes, and the rotational/centripital forces greater, wouldn't there possibly be limitations?

Don't know, I just fly them (and clean them from time to time). But like my first flight instructor said- "If you don't look good doing what you do, why bother? Besides... it's all about the hair"

 

[LegacyDriver]

Good point. Wish we had a brake expert here to 'splain!

 

[Blackjet]

I wipe off the "hub caps" on our birds because they look much better when shiny white (and nobody else will do it). That's the OCD side of my personality coming out I guess, but it lead to a question.

I have ceramic brakes on my cars because I hate cleaning brake dust out of the rims all the time. They are dust free and worth every penny. Why can't we install these on airplanes? Black brake dust everywhere is such an eyesore for some reason...

Carbon Fiber brakes will take care of these issues. The problem for most is from an economic standpoint. A CL60 set of Carbon Fibers will set the owner back 100K. Are they worth it, yes, but explaining the difference for the $ can be tough to get across to a #s guy. Aside from cleaner wear, Carbon Fiber works very well when they get heated up and if used properely (such as fluid and continuous applications instead of jumping on and off of them while taxing as well as also riding them a little bit during taxi out to get them heated up) they will last forever. The real selling point is when they are used under rapid and heavy deceleration. Impressive!

 

[HMR]

Brake fade?

As for brake fade, are you suggesting that it is not a serious problem in aviation (autos as well)? Check in with the guys over at Carlsbad and get their thoughts on the issue. Geting on the brakes at high speeds will in fact cause brake fade, especially in heavy corporate jet aircraft.

Do you think crossing the fence at Vref+90 might've played a bigger role in the accident?

 

[LRvsH25B]

Do you think crossing the fence at Vref+90 might've played a bigger role in the accident?

No, no, not at all. DUH! Of course it did. I guess you think they were doing Touch-N-Go's? Prelims are saying they landed, went for the T/Rs AND the brakes. Brakes did not work (Once again, the pedal will go to floor when operating that far outside of the AFM), so they tried to reject the landing, thus crashing off the end as a result of an unsuccessful take-off attempt.

 

[enigma]

I flew in recently into a Midwestern airport, and I began a conversation with a Corporate Lear 31 pilot. The guy flies for a large corporate flight dept that operates alot of lears...some of you might already know who I am talking about. Anyway, after talking about life, jobs and what not. The fellow pilot metioned something that really came to my attention. He said that at this flight department they make some of their pilots wipe down their landing gear struts after flights. I laughed at first but then realized that the guy was serious. Has anyone heard of this BS....is their a good reason behind this besides being an ass. Anyone??

Back in 91, when WalMart bought McLane Co, WallyWorld operated a bunch of TurboCommodes and a few jets. If memory serves, WalMart operated on Citation for Rob Walton and had just bought their first Lear31 (which they soon managed to strand on the runway at Stapleton after landing with the brakes parked, or something like that).
At that time, Mclane had operated Lears for ten years and had better operational procedures in place than did WalMart. One of the things that McLanes department manager demanded was this strut wipedown ever time an aircraft returned to base. BTW, WD40 was used, not hydraulic fluid. DW, the department manager was a very observant man, and he had "observed" over the previous ten years, that his Lear 35's suffered far fewer strut problems than did those of operators who did not wipe the crud off the chrome.

I worked at McLane, and I can tell you that wiping the struts was not a big deal. I can't say the same for spending my off days polishing the leading edges and mopping the hanger floor/mowing the hanger grass/cleaning the hanger crapper/emptying the airplanes potty. I say that because wiping the struts, CarbonX'ing the KingAir nacelles was included in the original job description, performing a complete aircraft wash/wax/polish and hanger maintenance was not.

Even so, if I could find a quality corporate job close to home. I'd take it, even if I had to occasionally polish those leading edges.
enigma

 

[some_dude]

I don't have any problem with cleaning the struts, or wiping down the nacelles. It's simply taking care of the equipment. If I had "people" to do that, then I probably wouldn't bother, but for most of my career, my "people" have been me, myself, and I.

I've never asked anyone else to do it, nor have I been asked to do it. It's just common sense. Also, I don't do it if I'm getting off the airplane at the end of a 14 hour day or I'm in MSP and the wind is blowing the snow sideways across the ramp. But, if it's PSP and it's 70 degrees out, and I'm sitting around waiting for pax, why not?

 

[pw4000]

Can you permadonas put gas in your own car or is that above your head. Its all part of the job its just a job who cares what you do. Get over it

 

[LegacyDriver]

Carbon Fiber brakes will take care of these issues. The problem for most is from an economic standpoint. A CL60 set of Carbon Fibers will set the owner back 100K. Are they worth it, yes, but explaining the difference for the $ can be tough to get across to a #s guy. Aside from cleaner wear, Carbon Fiber works very well when they get heated up and if used properely (such as fluid and continuous applications instead of jumping on and off of them while taxing as well as also riding them a little bit during taxi out to get them heated up) they will last forever. The real selling point is when they are used under rapid and heavy deceleration. Impressive!

Carbon Fiber brakes still turn the wheel rims black though... Unless I have been told I had CF brakes when in fact I did not. The ERJs supposedly had CF brakes but if left untouched the wheels and struts would be caked with black dust in a very short period of time. .