What is so wrong about "with you"

[MTpilot]

Come on............

What do you want instead? Give examples.

 

[English]

Read the AIM for your answer and examples.

Me? I say "SoCal Approach, Citation xxx, level one zero thousand" or the corresponding equivalents.

 

[minitour]

Come on............

What do you want instead? Give examples.

Where else would you be?

"Approach (center/tower/etc), Cessna 1234X, 6,000 Echo"

Basically, who am I talking to, who am I, where am I and anything else (like - what I want to do)

"Tower, Cessna 1234X outside the marker, option"

"Ground, Cessna 1234X North ramp, uniform, taxi"

that kinda thing.

-mini

 

[414Flyer]

Why do you need to tell the controller that you are with them? It doesnt serve any point or add any information whatsoever.

Do you tell anyone else in a conversation or phone call that you are "with you"

 

[NoPax]

You don't have to say it - you're talking to them already

State who you are talking to, your callsign, altitude and any other restrictions - ie speed, heading etc.

I throw in a 'good evening/morning/afternoon', in case I might need to ask for a shortcut later.

Read the AIM. You'll get ignored if you talk like that in Europe.

 

[lowslow]

Nothing is wrong about "with you". Except for a bunch of sniviling, whining people with nothing better to do but shoot across the bow from their keyboard, it's perfectly fine.
Come on people. I've been flying for 26 years, and have yet to hear one person say that it's not acceptable. If it really bothers anyone that much, or if you think it implies a lack of professonalism (Sp?) (a bone for the English proffessors onboard), you really need to lay off the caffine.

Nothing wrong with sounding human.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. If you hear someone say it, I hope you have it somewhere deep in your heart to forgive.....

 

[MD11Drvr]

Come on............

What do you want instead? Give examples.

When you start flying overseas especially the third world anything other than ICAO standard will confuse things. It may seem like a small thing but its the first thing new hires get gigged on where I work. Depending on the location in can be downright dangerous to be non standard. A small piece of advice would be use correct ICAO now and you won't sound like an idiot on the radio when you start flying international. While flying overseas its embarrassing to hear some of our US brethern checking in to Frankfurt Control sounding like they are talking to a truck stop on a CB.............................

The rest of you can flame away but ICAO standard/ State rules really is the best way to communicate.

 

[MTpilot]

Roger That!


HaHa!

 

[Metro752]

While flying overseas its embarrassing to hear some of our US brethern checking in to Frankfurt Control sounding like they are talking to a truck stop on a CB.............................

Awwwwww come on, whats wrong with being the stereotypical American "Cowboy."

 

[FN FAL]

Come on............

What do you want instead? Give examples.

It not only sounds gay, but once you key a mike button 70 or 80 thousand times, you'll be looking for ways to eliminate useless verbiage.

verbiage

One entry found for verbiage. Main Entry: ver·biage Pronunciation: 'v&r-bE-ij also -bij
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Middle French verbier to chatter, from verbe speech, from Latin verbum word
1 : a profusion of words usually of little or obscure content <such a tangled maze of evasive verbiage as a typical party platform -- Marcia Davenport>
2 : manner of expressing oneself in words : [SIZE=-1]DICTION[/SIZE] <sportswriters guarded their verbiage so jealously -- R.A. Sokolov>

 

[MD11Drvr]

Awwwwww come on, whats wrong with being the stereotypical American "Cowboy."

I see you point however the german controllers are not known for the sense of humor being stressed in thier training. And it really does play into the stereotype. Life really is easier ICAO standard but if you want to hold over the spessart NDB then cowboy away...........

 

[Metro752]

I know, just kiddin around, the old joke about the German controller giving the American pilot a hard time about having ever been to Frankfurt before, only once before in another type of Boeing, and it didn't involve landing. Ha!

 

[sbav8r]

Any controllers on here want to give an opinion?

 

[FN FAL]

Any controllers on here want to give an opinion?

I knew comptrollers that hated people saying things like, "with you". Why would a controller be any different?

 

[BRIGADEAVIATOR]

I sometimes use the phrase "checking in"

"Socal approach seneca XXXX checking in level 12 thousand."

 

[A Squared]

I've been flying for 26 years, and have yet to hear one person say that it's not acceptable. ..

Try reading articles written by controllers. I've read a number of articles written for pilots by different controllers over the years and they all hate it.

Here's a list of ATC articles on Avweb.
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182651-1.html If you read them, you'll notice that more often than not, when he gives an example of a dumbass unprofessional plot, the pilot is saying "with you". that should give you a clue what this controller thinks about it. I've read articles by a few other controllers, they seem to have the same opinion. why would you do something controllers don't like?

Now, would you say "I'm wearing underwear today" every time you contacted a new controller? I wouldn't. It doesn't impart any useful information, it wastes time on the frequency, and the controller would probably think I'm a dumbass. The same can be said for "with you".

 

[Thedude]

Now, would you say "I'm wearing underwear today" every time you contacted a new controller?

Thanks for the idea...i am gonna use that now

 

[Metro752]

i actually need some new underwear. ya ever notice it disapears over the course of a year or so, till ya gotta buy more. I dont have any problem with holy underwear, and if I can't find any, I dont wear any.

 

[Nolife]

With you

Actually where I work there's a new Capt who says "With you" every time in Brazil, Uruguay, and Argentina and they seem to have no problem with it. I fact I think telling them that you have new underwear would be good since we have to fight for CB deviations and that would let them know that were OK without them; both new underwear and deviations.

I think it's un-professional and shows a lack of ATC communication knowledge but it wouldn’t get you killed.

 

[Goose Egg]

I sometimes like to "check in" on the "meter."

Kidding. I don't know what it's like around your necks of the woods, but here in the Northeast it can get very busy, and radio communications need to be as concise and accurate as possible to avoid frequency congestion (nevermind keeping controllers happy.) Eliminating useless verbiage (somewhere FN FAL is smiling) such as "with you" is critical to that end.

Besides, it just makes you sound like an idiot.

-Goose

 

[Vector4fun]

I'm really not a phraseology "nazi" if the freq isn't too busy, heck some of the stuff is pretty funny. The problem with the phrase "With you" is, students pick it up and use it in some really strange ways....


Busy Sunday afternoon in nice weather, GA all over heading to different satellite fields and overflights..

"Approach, Cessna 45 echo is with ya"

<me, scanning the scope for a N45E I must have taken a HO on>

"Calling approach, say call sign again?"

"Approach, Cessna 45 echo is with ya at forty five hundred"

<Now I'm looking for a tag, a strip, anything with N45E on it, I don't recall either>

"November 45 echo, say position"

"45 echo is twenty five south east with ATIS inbound"

Well Jeeezz, you just waisted a bunch of my limited time, and you will NOT go to the front of my sequence as a result. You could have made that last transmission first, and we'd be done by now....

And yes, this happens nearly every weekend...

 

[midlifeflyer]

Come on............

What do you want instead? Give examples.

"Hello."
"How dee do?"
"I have a great mortgage rate for you!"
"In the air"
"Sitting down"
"In an airplane"
"Hi there big boy"
"Grow your penis today"
"FYI"
"Laser Cartridge Refills

and that all time classic

"uhhhh"

which, of course, is what "with you" is really the equivalent of. Filler when you can't think of anything relevant to say. Nothing really "wrong" with it, but an unnecessary crutch. The only time I really got huffy about it was when I saw it on a flight school's handout of recommended communication technique.

 

[Goose Egg]

Midlife,

That was perhaps the funniest thing I've ever read on flightinfo. I was laughing so hard I was crying!!

-Goose

 

[FN FAL]

Kidding. I don't know what it's like around your necks of the woods, but here in the Northeast it can get very busy, and radio communications need to be as concise and accurate as possible to avoid frequency congestion (nevermind keeping controllers happy.) Eliminating useless verbiage (somewhere FN FAL is smiling) such as "with you" is critical to that end.

Besides, it just makes you sound like an idiot.

-Goose

Not only that, but we as listeners have to put up with hearing it all the time.

Besides, by not saying, "with you" all the time, it gives the controllers more time to explain "Pilot's Descretion" clearances to the other bone heads.

 

[FN FAL]

The only time I really got huffy about it was when I saw it on a flight school's handout of recommended communication technique.

Is that the same flyer where they recommended using the phrase, "Left Final"? Or...starting out a request by saying, "tail number yadda yadda, with a request?"

 

[midlifeflyer]

BTW, for those who like to defend "with you" here's some ammunition. I found one (and so far only one) FAA publication that uses the phrase. FAA-H-8083-11 - BALLOON FLYING HANDBOOK uses it in Chapter 4 as an example of initial contact with an ATC facility:

==============================
LIVERMORE TOWER, BALLOON FIVE FIVE SIX THREE WHISKEY, WITH YOU AT TWO THOUSAND FEET OVER THE CITY, EASTBOUND.
==============================

 

[EagleRJ]

Along the same vein...

What are everyone's thoughts about using the facility name on the initial call? ("Kansas City Center, .........." vs. "Center, .......")

I assume the controller knows where they parked their car that morning, so using the facility name is just wasted airtime. If you're on the wrong frequency, it will still be obvious.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I sometimes use the phrase "checking in"

"Socal approach seneca XXXX checking in level 12 thousand."

Saracstic German controller response: "Checking in? Would you like to leave a credit card for incidentals?"

 

[gkrangers]

I'm afraid to talk on the radios now, for fear that someone on flightinfo will hear me say something stupid....

facility, cessna 12345, 5000 if they are busy

or

facility, good afternoon/morning/evening, cessna 12345, 5000 if they arent.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Nothing is wrong about "with you". Except for a bunch of sniviling, whining people with nothing better to do but shoot across the bow from their keyboard, it's perfectly fine.

Except that it is: 1. Not in the pilot controller glossary
2. Unprofessional (not as bad as "five by five", but it's up there.
3. Incorrect. You are not with "him", you are miles away in the air somewhere.
4. Unneccessary. Takes up valuable time.

Come on people. I've been flying for 26 years, and have yet to hear one person say that it's not acceptable.

Except for all hundreds of professional pilots that seem to think so on this and every other forum that the subject is brought up on.

If it really bothers anyone that much, or if you think it implies a lack of professonalism (Sp?) (a bone for the English proffessors onboard), you really need to lay off the caffine.

Nothing wrong with sounding human.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. If you hear someone say it, I hope you have it somewhere deep in your heart to forgive.....

Nobody is going to publicly humiliate you, doctor, when you drop your "with you" or "five by five" or "ten four", but if you have your Bonanza throttled back on your five mile left final, you may hear some snickering.