What is going on at Avantair?

[C425Driver]

I just read the latest company email. We have taken delivery of three Avanti II's with more to come! Good news for us!

C425Driver

 

[myrealnameis]

I know that this has been discussed before, but how long before we see an Avanti II on the line with Avantair? It's still unclear in terms of timing. Have you guys trained some pilots on the new aircraft? Have shares been sold in the new aircraft? How many should be expected on the line by year end?

I believe we have owership of 3 right at this moment, 1 is being used for training and the other 2 I think need to get a conformity with the feds. Piaggio has another 2 I believe to be delivered any day now. You can keep tabs on the AII's on flightaware.com a/c are: 140sl 143sl 108sl 150sl and 156sl are in the country now. You can check registrations on the faa website 157sl - 159sl are in the pipeline. With the merger near complete I bet we will start getting new airplanes at a rapid rate.

 

[citationsarejun]

Posted by njw
This sounds quite familiar. The company is bringing in money but chooses to invest in its infrastructure rather than its pilots. njw



I am laughing so hard i don't even know where to begin. What business training do you have? Just because we are pilots doesn't mean we are brainless. It is this kind of statement that makes me question my profession. A good solid infrastructure is the key to any successful business and often costs the most to build. Without it we would be jobless. Most of us are smarter than you think.

 

[citationsarejun]

by the way congratulations Avantair pilots sounds like good news. Cool airplane and have always liked the company and concept

 

[netjetwife]

Based on common sense and human nature, I'm suggesting that a balanced approach is wiser in the long run. In your profession, training is very expensive so a high turn over rate due to pilot dissatisfaction and low morale is a high cost that could be avoided. It's common knowledge that employees that feel respected and valued are more productive and loyal. It is also inherently unfair to balance the budget and/or grow the company at the expense of one group of employees. Evidence of that happening is seen in the fact that Avantair pilots are receiving sub-par wages (less than industry standard) for their skills and contribution to the company. That situation, left unchecked, will breed resentment which in turns leads to lowered productivity and increased attrition. That is counter-productive and does no one any good. Sometimes managers need to be forced to make sound decisions for the future. Anyone can get caught up in the plan of the moment and become oblivious to the consequences--that is simply human nature. Until the grumbling gets too loud they'll continue to ignore it, right or wrong.

But don't take my word for it....just look at NJA. They finally settled with the pilots and profits are up, pilots are pleased, and the union and the company are working on joint projects that are estimated to save millions. It's like a 3-legged race; the team that works together the best comes out ahead. None of us needs a business degree to understand that. NJW

 

[Flybet3]

Based on common sense and human nature, I'm suggesting that a balanced approach is wiser in the long run. In your profession, training is very expensive so a high turn over rate due to pilot dissatisfaction and low morale is a high cost that could be avoided. It's common knowledge that employees that feel respected and valued are more productive and loyal. It is also inherently unfair to balance the budget and/or grow the company at the expense of one group of employees. Evidence of that happening is seen in the fact that Avantair pilots are receiving sub-par wages (less than industry standard) for their skills and contribution to the company. That situation, left unchecked, will breed resentment which in turns leads to lowered productivity and increased attrition. That is counter-productive and does no one any good. Sometimes managers need to be forced to make sound decisions for the future. Anyone can get caught up in the plan of the moment and become oblivious to the consequences--that is simply human nature. Until the grumbling gets too loud they'll continue to ignore it, right or wrong.

But don't take my word for it....just look at NJA. They finally settled with the pilots and profits are up, pilots are pleased, and the union and the company are working on joint projects that are estimated to save millions. It's like a 3-legged race; the team that works together the best comes out ahead. None of us needs a business degree to understand that. NJW

NetJetWife, I like ya...but come on, you need to know when to stop and just back-off a bit. Goodness

 

[netjetwife]

Flybet3, I find it difficult to do justice to complicated subjects with 30 second sound bites.... My PMs from friends at Avantair tell me that there are serious issues facing the pilots, in spite of their recent good news.

Thanks for the friendly advice, though... and Good Luck! I'm looking forward to the next report.
NJW

 

[Flybet3]

Flybet3, I find it difficult to do justice to complicated subjects with 30 second sound bites.... My PMs from friends at Avantair tell me that there are serious issues facing the pilots, in spite of their recent good news.

Thanks for the friendly advice, though... and Good Luck! I'm looking forward to the next report.
NJW

I agree, there are some things going on that I just hope will get fixed SOON... I agree with you on some stuff, but you know....

 

[netjetwife]

Yes, I know.... that's why lots of pilots PM me. So they can still look macho on the board....

Seriously, I'm well aware that my position is unusual, but I do feel that it is important to give the family perspective, even if the gender and role difference does sometimes make you guys roll your eyes at me....

You guys may think my posts are just a tad over the top sometimes, but no one can doubt my sincerity. And face it, you frac pilots can use all the support you can get... I look forward to watching your progress.

Cheering for you from the sidelines,
Netjetwife

 

[Dilligaff]

FlyBet,

With each post she demonstrates again and again how little she knows about our company. High turnover rate due to pilot dissatisfaction and low morale? Until reading her post I didn't realize we had that problem here. And to think I've been flying up our seniority list and didn't even know it! I thought we had a very low turnover rate (but what do I know, I only work here). That usually happens because people are satisfied with their jobs and aren't looking elsewhere. Amongst the people I see on a daily basis, I have been encountering good morale because they enjoy it here. Anyway, I can't wait to read more of her posts so I can learn more about my company from someone who doesn't work here 'cause she's an expert on everything that happens at Avantair!

Dilligaff

 

[CherryBomb]

Consider this...

While everyone has made some good points consider this:

I seem to remember an airline from way back that when they started they couldn't even pay their pilots with real money, instead the company paid them with stock options. Some people got angry and left complaining of the substandard treatment. Others stuck with the company, I even know of one guy who used all the stock options to wallpaper his garage!! But a few years later those stock options came off the wall and he, among others, were rapidly becoming millionaires. All because of a bunch of big brown and orange 737's in Texas...


Another company back from the same time period; when they started pilots complained about the same harsh treatment and substandard pay we hear about today. No one wanted to fly boxes all night in little Falcon 20's with purple tails. At one point pilots were using their own money to fill the tanks of these airplanes!!! As a result many people quit. But there were a few that stayed and they too are now millionaires. All because of a bunch of big box hauling purple tails in Memphis...



My point: Take time to slow down and look at what you do for a living. Pilots have an extremely vital role in the development, stability and overall health of their company.

Instead of thinking about ME ME ME, think about the company. Avantair is in a growing stage. Its a young company. We as pilots need to concentrate, at least for now, on how we can help this company grow. Our investment in sweat equity into our company should pay off nicely in the future. If all we do now is complain about our needs and our pay, then all we do is drag down the company and in-turn drag ourselves down.

I am getting damn tired of this ME ME ME attitude Americans as a whole seem to be adopting. Don't believe me? Look at the divorce rate.

Look at the American car company unions that forced their management to pay people upwards of 40k a year to sweep floors!!! Yeah, they made that big money for a while, now their company is bankrupt...




Just give it some time, take some pride in your job and your company, and see how your investment pans out. If a couple years go buy and it isn't working out, then fire up that word processor and get out your resume.


And NO, Im not management, Im just a lowly FO...

 

[corpflunkie]

Very good post CherryBomb. So many people on this board seem to forget that Rome wasn't built in a day. A new company cannot start out paying their employees industry leading pay and grow at the same time unless you have WB's deep pockets behind you. Comparing our situation to NetJets is apples and oranges. BTW how well were NJ pilots paid when their company was only a few years old??? I would be lying if I said our pay couldn't be better, but if you compare it to most turboprop payscales, it's not bad. Most of the people take pride in the company, and are willing to compromise some to ensure long term growth and prosperity.

 

[netjetwife]

Dill, please follow the thread more closely and assign my posts the proper context. It was never intended as a current snapshot, but rather what can, and often does, happen when managers (in any company) take their employees for granted and don't reward them for their contribution along the way. I'm just suggesting that loyalty is a two-way street and the pilots should see signs of that along the way. The precursors of the more problematic situation I described often go unnoticed until late in the game. Are the pilots treated with respect and considered a valuable part of the company, is their input sought and seriously considered. Are they given real answers to their questions or canned responses that rarely vary?

I apologize if my posts are unclear; I thought Avantair pilots understood that I was speaking of conditions that frac pilots share, in general, while trying to learn more about your situation. My posts are motivated by concern. I hate to see pilots from any company get left behind when they are clearly helping to build the industry.

CB, gave examples of successful companies whose owners/managers treated the employees with respect and rewards along the way. I think stock options would be a great idea for Avantair pilots. I agree that in our country a selfish attitude often prevails. Frequently it is seen in corporate America as the worker does more for less and the executives get wealthy. Asking for industry standard wages doesn't make the pilots greedy and expecting management to meet their basic obligations to their current workforce before they concentrate on expansion is protecting the long range well-being of the company lest the negative conditions that I mentioned becomes the norm rather than the exception. It happened at NJA. The company got behind in hiring because they couldn't attract the pilots they needed at the low wages offered. Now they can but the training pipeline is clogged and money is not spent efficiently paying pilots to sit at home waiting for their turn in training. That could have been avoided by settling the contract much earlier.

CF, the NJ pilots got left behind financially when the company grew. Their families suffered while they watched NJA sponsor yacht regattas, golf matches, and horse races. They became very bitter and conditions that I mentioned in my previous post were seen frequently. There was definitely a feeling that they had been short-changed as the broken promises piled up. Even with the new CBA there remains, for some, deep feelings of mistrust. NJA certainly can't be listed with CB's examples of companies that grew successfully while taking care of its people.

I would hate to see history repeat itself at the expense of Avantair pilots and their families. When the NJ pilots look back the signs were there: a lack of respect, treating pilots like machines, postponing the reward time after time with promises that never materialized. Yes, the NJ pilots finally got a substantial pay raise but only when they stood up for themselves and demanded that the company treat them like the professionals they are, prior to that they watched the profits earned from their hard work get funneled into expansion in management and the market while they were told "next time". Things only improved for NJ pilots when they called in the IOUs. At that point they learned they had waited too long. Their retro bonus felt like a slap in the face to the pilots who had invested the most time in the company. Fair warning: the longer you let the debt go unpaid, the lower your chances of getting a full return for your investment.
Best Wishes,
Netjetwife

 

[Dilligaff]

Cheery and Corp,

Excellent posts. I think both your posts reflect the current atmosphere at Avantair. It's far from a perfect place but it's got so much potential and it's getting better every day. I think the majority of us who work there see that and are looking forward to a bright future.

Dilligaff

 

[Flybet3]

BTW how well were NJ pilots paid when their company was only a few years old??? I would be lying if I said our pay couldn't be better, but if you compare it to most turboprop payscales, it's not bad. Most of the people take pride in the company, and are willing to compromise some to ensure long term growth and prosperity.

Well I remember when NJ fo's were starting at what? 28K a year? I remember when asking a NJ pilot about working there they would say "Why? dude, you're better off working somewhere else." I can find sooooo many posts of NJ guys trash talking their company, and people saying "Why would anyone work for piss poor wages". Now the same people that said these things are the ones saying "Hey!! I JUST GOT AN APPLICATION!!!...How long does it take to hear back for the interview!!??" Two faced rats! I think this company has potential and if some people have left it has been for reason other than what is being said. One Captain left b/c he got his corporate dream job...He was here for a good couple of years, and liked the time he was here.