What is DRO at AAI?

[Lear70]

CDO's aren't terribly bad, depending on your ability to tolerate them, as long as they aren't front- or back-loaded. Here at AirTran, they sometimes put a leg on the front or back of that flight - they're brutal.

A continuous-duty overnight is when you duty on at say 8 or 9 at night, fly one leg of a couple hours to an out-station, go to the hotel for 4 or 5 hours, you don't go into rest, you come back to the airport and fly the EMO (Early Morning Originator) back into base. You're on duty for 11 or 12 hours, up all night, maybe catch a nap (which is another nickname for them), then expected to sleep during the day before your next one.

Another thing they do here is a front- or back-loaded Red eye. Saw one of them yesterday, a 4-day where the first 3 days were normal days, late 1st day report, afternoon legs for 3 days, then the last day late show, one leg MKE-LAS late evening, then the red-eye flight back LAS-ATL, 11 hour duty day, 7 hours of flying, the last of it on the back side of the clock.

I can't do that, my body doesn't bounce back and forth from days to all-night flights like that, much less when I've had a full duty day BEFORE I fly all night. Some people can, some people actually like them... glad they do, makes it easier for me to bid away from them.

 

[Ty Webb]

CDO's aren't terribly bad, depending on your ability to tolerate them, as long as they aren't front- or back-loaded. Here at AirTran, they sometimes put a leg on the front or back of that flight - they're brutal.

When have you ever seen that here? I have never seen anything other than 1 leg out, 1 leg back. I thought the report times were later, say 21:30 but it's been a long time since I have done one.

 

[Lear70]

When have you ever seen that here? I have never seen anything other than 1 leg out, 1 leg back. I thought the report times were later, say 21:30 but it's been a long time since I have done one.

It's been a while since I saw a front- or back-loaded CDO, but I see the front- and back-loaded red-eyes in open time on a regular basis (have to be careful not to grab one during SAP or daily trades, they look like regular trips until you see the last day).

Most of the report times are later, but they're still 10-12 hours of duty all on the back side of the clock, definitely not for me. The one I was scheduled for last month was a JAX turn, duty on at 2040, fly one leg to JAX, 7 hours on the ground (the longest CDO that was in the system), back to ATL.

 

[Ty Webb]

Copy dat.

 

[texman]

OMG, You guy's are going to luv the PM/AM sched. No CDO's at the luv fest. That's bs.

 

[Cruncher]

CDOs are hard for a reason. Humans did not evolve jacking with their circadian rhythms.

It's been a few years since I read the studies, but there is evidence indicating a shorter life span for those who routinely mess with their body clock; also measurable impairment in cognitive ability and motor skills during the transition periods (the time when you have yet to adjust to the new "time zone"). This last part was more or less a proof of the effects of fatigue.
It's really amazing the FAA allows them. Fatigue has the exact same effects as alcohol. It was also amazing how powerful mini-naps are at combating fatigue.

We called them combat-naps, but we also called jumping-jacks, side-strattle hops, guess it seemed more manly.

You are going to like SWAs pm/am lines.

 

[27 driver]

I have done a few and hate them. The people who like them mostly have some other business to run during the day or have obligations such as children and such. Most of the guys who do them look like death warmed over.

 

[Ty Webb]

Fatigue has the exact same effects as alcohol.

Except fatigue isn't as much fun and doesn't help white guys dance. :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Except fatigue isn't as much fun and doesn't help white guys dance. :laugh:

It doesn't help you dance, Ty, it just makes you *THINK* you're dancing better...

What are the three levels of drunkenness?

I'm incredible.
I'm invincible.
I'm invisible.

 

[waveflyer]

Maybe some longer tenured SWA guys can chime in- where did the AM/PM schedule start from? Does the company just like that, or is the science behind it-
Been told by a classmate that it's part of the productivity- pilots will fly more if they aren't so fatigued----I agree with that- but is it part of the equation on management's side?

FWiW- the AM/PM schedule is one of the best parts of southwest- a really big deal to not always reverse your sleep schedule- said the man who spend most of a decade flying til midnight, just to be wrenching out of bed at 4am a couple days later

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

OMG, You guy's are going to luv the PM/AM sched. No CDO's at the luv fest. That's bs.

SW does have them, They are called charters and they pay Double time (or the Rig whichever is higher.) They use to Junior Man for them (JA) but as soon as the new contract increased to what the FA's were paid for them as long as I can remember (At least 10 years), they now go senior!

KBB

 

[texman]

SW does have them, They are called charters and they pay Double time (or the Rig whichever is higher.) They use to Junior Man for them (JA) but as soon as the new contract increased to what the FA's were paid for them as long as I can remember (At least 10 years), they now go senior!

KBB

Well this is true but to have lines built that way just isn't right.

 

[ivauir]

Some call them stand-ups or highspeeds. IMHO, they're miserable. Some swear by them though and won't fly anything else.

Yeah,

That is what they were talking about - they weren't fond of them at all.

 

[chase]

The AM/PM type scheduling has been at SWA for sometime...not sure precisely but it is a good fit for the type of operations SWA flies. There are some "mixed" lines labeled as such based upon when they start and when they start.

I can't find what defines the term "AM" or "PM" line at this time but others may have that info....the scheduling program is written to meet the goal of a certain percentage (pretty high) of the lines to be classified as AM to start by 0xxx and must be completed by 1xxx (maybe 1600 but I can't recall) with a certain percentage of PM lines that start no earlier than 1xxx and completed by 0xxx (approximately 0130 CST I believe).

Will be interesting to see if SWA takes on any of the red eyes that AAI still does from West to East. SWA did them when they had 727s in the early 80's from HOU-LAS but does not do them now, excluding charters.

Here is a copy of the current contract's scheduling rules in terms of duty days.

Maximum Duty Period
Report Time Maximum Duty Period Scheduled Maximum Actual
0200-0359 10 Hours 12 Hours
0400-0559 12 Hours 14 Hours
0600-1059 13 Hours 15 Hours
1100-1459 12 Hours 14 Hours
1500-1959 11 Hours 13 Hours
2000-0159 9 Hours 11 Hours

Percentage of 1,2,3 & 4 day schedules are below (overlap for reserves can cause a schedule greater than 4 days on reserve...will work to fix that on next CBA) per the current CBA is below.

The System wide Pairing Mix will consist of:

a. Minimum one (1) day pairings equal to or greater than five percent (5%) of pairings;

b. Minimum two (2) day pairings equal to or greater than five percent (5%) of pairings;

c. Minimum three (3) day pairings equal to or greater than fifty-five percent (55%) of
pairings; and

d. Maximum four (4) day pairings equal to or less than twenty percent (20%) of pairings

 

[stalker]

Charters pay 1.5 not double time.