What is DRO at AAI?

[Cruncher]

CDOs are hard for a reason. Humans did not evolve jacking with their circadian rhythms.

It's been a few years since I read the studies, but there is evidence indicating a shorter life span for those who routinely mess with their body clock; also measurable impairment in cognitive ability and motor skills during the transition periods (the time when you have yet to adjust to the new "time zone"). This last part was more or less a proof of the effects of fatigue.
It's really amazing the FAA allows them. Fatigue has the exact same effects as alcohol. It was also amazing how powerful mini-naps are at combating fatigue.

We called them combat-naps, but we also called jumping-jacks, side-strattle hops, guess it seemed more manly.

You are going to like SWAs pm/am lines.

 

[27 driver]

I have done a few and hate them. The people who like them mostly have some other business to run during the day or have obligations such as children and such. Most of the guys who do them look like death warmed over.

 

[Ty Webb]

Fatigue has the exact same effects as alcohol.

Except fatigue isn't as much fun and doesn't help white guys dance. :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Except fatigue isn't as much fun and doesn't help white guys dance. :laugh:

It doesn't help you dance, Ty, it just makes you *THINK* you're dancing better...

What are the three levels of drunkenness?

I'm incredible.
I'm invincible.
I'm invisible.

 

[waveflyer]

Maybe some longer tenured SWA guys can chime in- where did the AM/PM schedule start from? Does the company just like that, or is the science behind it-
Been told by a classmate that it's part of the productivity- pilots will fly more if they aren't so fatigued----I agree with that- but is it part of the equation on management's side?

FWiW- the AM/PM schedule is one of the best parts of southwest- a really big deal to not always reverse your sleep schedule- said the man who spend most of a decade flying til midnight, just to be wrenching out of bed at 4am a couple days later

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

OMG, You guy's are going to luv the PM/AM sched. No CDO's at the luv fest. That's bs.

SW does have them, They are called charters and they pay Double time (or the Rig whichever is higher.) They use to Junior Man for them (JA) but as soon as the new contract increased to what the FA's were paid for them as long as I can remember (At least 10 years), they now go senior!

KBB

 

[texman]

SW does have them, They are called charters and they pay Double time (or the Rig whichever is higher.) They use to Junior Man for them (JA) but as soon as the new contract increased to what the FA's were paid for them as long as I can remember (At least 10 years), they now go senior!

KBB

Well this is true but to have lines built that way just isn't right.

 

[ivauir]

Some call them stand-ups or highspeeds. IMHO, they're miserable. Some swear by them though and won't fly anything else.

Yeah,

That is what they were talking about - they weren't fond of them at all.

 

[chase]

The AM/PM type scheduling has been at SWA for sometime...not sure precisely but it is a good fit for the type of operations SWA flies. There are some "mixed" lines labeled as such based upon when they start and when they start.

I can't find what defines the term "AM" or "PM" line at this time but others may have that info....the scheduling program is written to meet the goal of a certain percentage (pretty high) of the lines to be classified as AM to start by 0xxx and must be completed by 1xxx (maybe 1600 but I can't recall) with a certain percentage of PM lines that start no earlier than 1xxx and completed by 0xxx (approximately 0130 CST I believe).

Will be interesting to see if SWA takes on any of the red eyes that AAI still does from West to East. SWA did them when they had 727s in the early 80's from HOU-LAS but does not do them now, excluding charters.

Here is a copy of the current contract's scheduling rules in terms of duty days.

Maximum Duty Period
Report Time Maximum Duty Period Scheduled Maximum Actual
0200-0359 10 Hours 12 Hours
0400-0559 12 Hours 14 Hours
0600-1059 13 Hours 15 Hours
1100-1459 12 Hours 14 Hours
1500-1959 11 Hours 13 Hours
2000-0159 9 Hours 11 Hours

Percentage of 1,2,3 & 4 day schedules are below (overlap for reserves can cause a schedule greater than 4 days on reserve...will work to fix that on next CBA) per the current CBA is below.

The System wide Pairing Mix will consist of:

a. Minimum one (1) day pairings equal to or greater than five percent (5%) of pairings;

b. Minimum two (2) day pairings equal to or greater than five percent (5%) of pairings;

c. Minimum three (3) day pairings equal to or greater than fifty-five percent (55%) of
pairings; and

d. Maximum four (4) day pairings equal to or less than twenty percent (20%) of pairings

 

[stalker]

Charters pay 1.5 not double time.

 

[roughneck]

CDO's aren't terribly bad, depending on your ability to tolerate them

The current NPRM will take care of any standups. The problem is your productivity on the daylight side will suffer without the standups on the backside. We don't have standups. Hurry over and you can enjoy are schedule and benefits.

 

[PCL_128]

The NPRM has carve outs for standups. They won't be eliminated.

 

[ivauir]

The NPRM has carve outs for standups. They won't be eliminated.

You won't do em here unless you desire/can hold charters.

If I end up ahead of you on the SLI you can have all mine ...

 

[GuppyWN]

Mine too! Been there done that. Got the near FAA letter of inquiry to prove it!

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

You won't do em here unless you desire/can hold charters.

How do the charters work? Are they mostly military, sports team, or what? How do the schedules usually work on them? And how senior do they usually go?

 

[ivauir]

How do the charters work? Are they mostly military, sports team, or what? How do the schedules usually work on them? And how senior do they usually go?

I used to work 'em when I commuted (and had some debt to pay down), but thankfully those days are over. There are military, sports, marching band ... whatever.

Generally just a turn, but some are more complicated. Sometimes to a SWA city, sometimes not even an airport with any scheduled service.

They are put into open time and the senior legal pilot gets 'em. The simplest ones show after normal SWA schedules (10 or 11) and fly one leg full one leg ferry. Get you in around 3 or 4. They can be more complicated and even multiday pairings.

I suspect they are starting to go a little more senior with the new premium on them, but I was able to get them as a new hire. They are kind of seasonal though. Always lots around new years for example.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

SWA does Am/PM's so they can do MX at night.

 

[ivauir]

SWA does Am/PM's so they can do MX at night.

That may be true, but I have been led to believe that it is more involved than that:
- It is hard on crews (think I'm drinking the koolaide? Research why Neelman left ...
- It devalues your product.
- It stresses the airline's system for a very low yield.

AM/PM is a simple system that keeps the crews in a reasonable circadian rhythm while still generating significant productivity.

I like it because I love getting up at the crack of 10 ...

 

[PCL_128]

I used to work 'em when I commuted (and had some debt to pay down), but thankfully those days are over. There are military, sports, marching band ... whatever.

Generally just a turn, but some are more complicated. Sometimes to a SWA city, sometimes not even an airport with any scheduled service.

They are put into open time and the senior legal pilot gets 'em. The simplest ones show after normal SWA schedules (10 or 11) and fly one leg full one leg ferry. Get you in around 3 or 4. They can be more complicated and even multiday pairings.

I suspect they are starting to go a little more senior with the new premium on them, but I was able to get them as a new hire. They are kind of seasonal though. Always lots around new years for example.

Thanks!

 

[27 driver]

That may be true, but I have been led to believe that it is more involved than that:
- It is hard on crews (think I'm drinking the koolaide? Research why Neelman left ...
- It devalues your product.
- It stresses the airline's system for a very low yield.

AM/PM is a simple system that keeps the crews in a reasonable circadian rhythm while still generating significant productivity.

I like it because I love getting up at the crack of 10 ...

I bet it cuts down on sick calls and nearly eliminates fatigue calls.