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What has ALPA done for me lately?

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Seems to be getting to you....

RJDC didn't "sue to do just the same thing"..... Those of us at ASA and CMR have already replaced mainline pilots for less pay.....These jobs we do were mainline jobs....Your just too stupid to realize that the damage has already been done......
It's YOU'RE, you MORON!
And the only reason you're getting to me is that you play the same fiddle over and over again, acting like the spoiled little brat that you are! No wonder you are stuck at ASA while your f/o's are getting hired at other major/legacy carriers, while your career, much like your lawsuit has failed miserably!


The Delta seniority list is about 3500 pilots less than it was 7 years ago.....Replacement has been going on and continues to go on.....
Wow, and it seems like who got screwed? I've moved up over 4000 numbers in almost 7 years! What about you sport?

Forgive me if I don't get to worked up about a possible replacement problem 5 years down the road...ALPA can't even deal with the current problem....
And your solution....Stealing minutes and crying like the little child that you are? How's that working for ya?

My job already is a Delta replacement job.....
That's right John, and it exists because the PWA allows it! If anyone here should be mad, its the DAL pilots, yet you and the rest of the girls seem to be crying the loudest!

Many union and non-union pilots are trying to replace my current job....even you mainline folks have resorted to underbidding regional rates in order to "recapture" the flying......
Sounds like you need to get some "scope" of your own. Instead of trying to eliminate it, you should be trying to have it. But you're too stupid to realize that!

Just wait till the next round of mergers in a downward economy with 100 dollar oil....It's going to be a bloodbath.....amongst "union brothers"......
Then you and the rest of the girls in Cresent Springs can have your circle jerk all over again!:beer:

737
 
On crewroom.alpa.org is a relatively new link... NAM IFLAPA.... NAM = North American region...

Is it a threat.. I think it is...

consider spending a few minutes checking it out and choose for yourself.... :)

....so there is a threat of pilots replacing other pilots for less pay......say it ain't so.....

....I propose a study committee to study the issue immediately.....let's call it the BCIC (Bilateral Cabotage Impact Committee).....

......oh and pilots....when you get done cutting each others throats over age60, scope, mergers, and political endorsements.....we need to get involved....because this is all your fault and poor ALPA needs the help......
 
....so there is a threat of pilots replacing other pilots for less pay......say it ain't so.....

....I propose a study committee to study the issue immediately.....let's call it the BCIC (Bilateral Cabotage Impact Committee).....

......oh and pilots....when you get done cutting each others throats over age60, scope, mergers, and political endorsements.....we need to get involved....because this is all your fault and poor ALPA needs the help......

What is that in your hand Joe? A knife...? No..looks like a machete.... Joe the Ripper.....

When they hauled off Auburn Callaway he cried out that he was the victim.....

Are you a victim Joe? With that machete in your hand?
 
It's YOU'RE, you MORON!
And the only reason you're getting to me is that you play the same fiddle over and over again, acting like the spoiled little brat that you are! No wonder you are stuck at ASA while your f/o's are getting hired at other major/legacy carriers, while your career, much like your lawsuit has failed miserably!

You're right....I guess neither you or PCL has ever made a mistake on FI.....I'm glad the spelling police are out in force....

I don't have an app. with Delta....I can't afford the paycut....It's not worth it for me to wait 10 years to get back to even....I don't have BSJS (big shiny jet syndrome)

My FOs get back to even much quicker....they can have it....


737 Pylt said:
Wow, and it seems like who got screwed? I've moved up over 4000 numbers in almost 7 years! What about you sport?

You "moved up over 4000 numbers in almost 7 years" because the senior folks at Delta took their retirement and bailed early.....With age65, a slipping economy, and a merger around the corner nobody is going to be moving up much....I guarantee the folks hired recently aren't going to move up 4000 numbers in the next 7 years.....
 
What is that in your hand Joe? A knife...? No..looks like a machete.... Joe the Ripper.....

When they hauled off Auburn Callaway he cried out that he was the victim.....

Are you a victim Joe? With that machete in your hand?

No I'm not a victim yet....many others are....my job has continued to get better the past 14 years.....how about everyone else's?

However eventually the same fate will hit us at ASA.....Forgive me if I don't get too worried about being replaced by Branson.....There are too many other union folks undercutting my rates and trying to "capture" flying......

I'll get back to you on the cabotage issue after I get done worrying about Mesa, PCL, Mesaba, CMR, Shuttle America, and Delta taking my job......
 
As long as you blame others for your circumstance you are claiming victim status for yourself..... don't worry Joe.. you are not alone... it seems to be the flavor of the month in our American culture.... problem is... were are years into it...
 
El Pobre-

Just out of curiosity:

1) Which airline do you fly for?
2) If you have such a low opinion of ALPA and feel that your dues are being extorted from you, what steps are you personally taking to work for a non-ALPA airline?
3) Why did you choose to work for an ALPA airline in the first place?

1- Does it really matter?
2- Let me answer #3 first...What the hell is an ALPA airline? I haven't seen any of our aircraft painted with ALPA on the side. ALPA certainly doesn't pay my paycheck every two weeks. ALPA doesn't supply my health insurance, life insurance, or disablility insurance. I chose to work for the company that I work for because I thought it is a good company with a bright future, not because of which union represents the pilots. Is that why you chose UAL, because they were represented by ALPA
3- Back to number two...why would I quit my job, which I enjoy, to go work somewhere else.

For you to say that "If I don't like ALPA's agency shop that I should change jobs", would be like me saying to you "If you don't like UAL's retirement plan, maybe you should go work for an airline that has a better one?" But perhaps you stay at UAL because you like the current retirement plan.
 
1- Does it really matter?
2- Let me answer #3 first...What the hell is an ALPA airline? I haven't seen any of our aircraft painted with ALPA on the side. ALPA certainly doesn't pay my paycheck every two weeks. ALPA doesn't supply my health insurance, life insurance, or disablility insurance. I chose to work for the company that I work for because I thought it is a good company with a bright future, not because of which union represents the pilots. Is that why you chose UAL, because they were represented by ALPA
3- Back to number two...why would I quit my job, which I enjoy, to go work somewhere else.

For you to say that "If I don't like ALPA's agency shop that I should change jobs", would be like me saying to you "If you don't like UAL's retirement plan, maybe you should go work for an airline that has a better one?" But perhaps you stay at UAL because you like the current retirement plan.

1) Yes it does. I was just wondering what airline you chose to work for. What's the matter with telling us all which airline you work for? I work for United. See, it isn't that hard!

2) An ALPA airline is an airline whose pilots are represented by ALPA. For example, I would consider United Airlines to be an ALPA airline. I would consider JetBlue to not be an ALPA airline.

3) This question relates to the fact that you CHOOSE to work for an ALPA airline, and I bet you chose to work for an ALPA airline because the ALPA negotiated benefits at the time of your initial employment were attractive to you compared to the benefits available at other airlines. Feel free to prove me wrong.

So I ask again:

1) What airline do you work for?
2) If you have such a low opinion of ALPA and feel that your dues are being extorted from you, what steps are you personally taking to work for a non-ALPA airline?
3) Why did you choose to work for an ALPA airline in the first place?

If you are going to come to this forum and choose to debate me, can you give me the facts concerning "where you're coming from" so I can defend and or make a point? If you're unwilling to do that, then why are you here?
 
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see a poll where ALPA is going to ask its members if it's better off to fruitlessly "fight to the death" or try to get cabotage/foreign ownership language that favors pilots in any legislation concerning that issue when it becomes unwinnable.


it will become "unwinnable" pretty GD quickly with Prater and the current corrupt stooges in charge.

you heard it from UALdriver first...ALPA is already posturing to justify rolling over on cabotage.
 
I disagree. I think you're compartmentalizing the issue to make it seem like cabotage and "flags of convenience" is only a mainline problem. That's pretty arrogant. Your attitude of how our problems and fate are not tied together highlights the problem.

It's a problem for all of us, and if we don't stop this double standard of two ALPAs we are going to get steamrolled.

Oh, and did you "back the PAC" yet this year? Everyone needs to.

I have been backing the PAC for 12 years. Thanks.

I never said it was a mainline only problem. In fact, if you look at the my text that you quoted, I said I was concerned about pilots coming over and flying 70 seat jets for 20K/year. 70 seat jets are regional jets and guys coming over to fly them for a fraction of what any U.S. pilot earns, regional or mainline, is a big problem.
 
On crewroom.alpa.org is a relatively new link... NAM IFLAPA.... NAM = North American region...

Is it a threat.. I think it is...

consider spending a few minutes checking it out and choose for yourself.... :)


Sorry Rez, I didn't see it. Must not be important enough, otherwise it'd be very obvious. ;)

Look, Wall Street says there's over 80% chance that our idiotic Fed will be cutting interest rates this week. What does that do to our dollar? What does that do to our collective value?

You know something, I'm not that worried about cabotage. We ARE some of the cheapest labor in the world.

PCL, not to really harp on you, but are you really worried about Russians coming here and flying for half the wages? You know, as much as I hate RJDC and their lawsuit, Joe is right. I see more threat to my job from US ALPA-represented (and non-ALPA) regional airlines than I do from Russian pilots.

Take a look at my airline. Part of my airline flies between Hawaiian islands. An ALPA airline (Mesa) came in, and literally destroyed the market with their $19 fares. Yes, $19! Not only that, but they got down to $9. Thanks to them, it costs more to take a cab from HNL to Waikiki than it does to fly from HNL - KOA.

Their senior captains are making substantially less than I make as an FO. Should I worry about Russians, or should I worry about my fellow ALPA brothers flying under ridiculously sh*tty contracts?

Another question for you:

Do you know how much pilots flying regional airline equipment overseas make? I spoke to a BritAir pilot (one of Air France regional carriers), and let's just say I was pleasantly surprised.

Trust me, cabotage is the least of my worries.
 
it will become "unwinnable" pretty GD quickly with Prater and the current corrupt stooges in charge.

you heard it from UALdriver first...ALPA is already posturing to justify rolling over on cabotage.

Yup, that's exactly what I said. ALPA's posturing to roll over on cabotage. Why don't you do me a favor and not put words in my mouth?

See, the problem with guys like you are that everything is a "black and white" issue. Unfortunatley, in the world of politics, that is not the case. Age 60, in my opinion, is an example of the shades of grey world ALPA operates in.

There are two kinds of fights when you're about to be on the losing side of an issue. The "fight to the death fight" where an organization (like ALPA) can fight a change in legislature, even if they know a change is going to occur anyway. What do you gain from this type of fight? Nothing, but I guess you get to make a point and then clueless guys like you can thump your chest and pretend you're a tough guy while changes get forced down your throat with no input. Maybe you think that's cool or that's the way to duel in the world of politics. Personally I don't.

Then there's the other type of fight. There's the type of fight where you realize a change is going to occur anyway, whether you like it or not, but instead of "fighting to the death" and getting nothing, you realize the fight is lost but you try to get something, anything that you otherwise wouldn't have received if you had continued that aforementioned "fight to the death."

Want a recent example to illustrate my point? IMO, look no further than the U.S. Airways and the America West pilot merger. Wanna bet that if you were a fly on the wall at the U.S. Airways pilot union meetings when they were discussing the direction their negotiating committeee should take concerning the pilot list merge that they were screaming "Date of hire or nothing! Fight to the death!! Date of hire or nothing!!" Their negotiators probably had the pilots' desires etched in to their heads- fight to the death- date of hire or nothing. Instead of realizing that they weren't going to get DOH after the arbitrator made it pretty darn clear they weren't going to get it, they chose to fight to the death on the date of hire issue instead of compromising and most certainly getting a better deal by negotiating with the America West guys. Maybe the U.S. Air guys could have gotten a fence, a better integration- something, anything. But instead they chose to fight to the death on the date of hire issue. Black and white world in their union halls I guess. If I was a U.S. Air guy, I'd be wondering if I had stuck a toe in the shades of grey world if I would have gotten something better than what Nicolau gave me. Hindsight is 20-20, huh?

Now I'll type slowly so you can get my point, but as I have said repeatedly, I think economic globalization is coming whether we like it or not- including foreign ownership and cabotage. I think ALPA should fight these issues extremely vigorously until it becomes a politically unwinnable fight and the change is going to occur anyway no matter how hard we oppose- and I hope that political day NEVER comes. But when/if that day comes, whether it is a week from now or a decade from now, ALPA may need to change from their "fight to the death" attitude to "let's try to get something" that will benefit its pilot constituents if it's likely we're going to lose anyway. That, to me, is a smarter way to fight.
 
yawn.

Like I said...you're already posturing and trying to "spin" the reason for ALPA rolling over on cabotage.

You, Prater, and ALPA could use a lesson in integrity and doing what is right...not what is politically expedient.

but hey, i'll be able to bypass security next year (maybe). Thanks, ALPA!
 
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Freight Dog, I agree with you and Joe that we have a problem with our own union airlines fighting over the scraps here in the country already, but that doesn't mean that adding even more competition to the situation won't harm us even more. We already have problems as it is. We don't need to be making them worse by allowing cabotage.
 

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