What happened to our "profession"???

[HA25]

V70T5, you want to know what happened to our profession? Sh!tbags like the above poster are what happened to this profession. He compares us to plumbers and brick layers, meanwhile we are responsible for tens of millions of dollars in property and hundreds of people's lives every day we go to work. There are too many pilots out there that think like this guy. That's what has caused the degradation of our profession.

I hereby declare this thread, and this situation a lost cause.

For now, at least.

take care all.

 

[pilotyip]

Actually I think plumbers and bricklayers make more money than RJ Captains, but correct me if I am wrong. They might even like their jobs to the point that they do not care about what people think about them. If he was reffering to me for degrading the profession, I'm sorry it was never intented, but I have had a ball and would change very little.

 

[PCL_128]

Actually I think plumbers and bricklayers make more money than RJ Captains, but correct me if I am wrong.

Ok, I will. The average Captain at PCL at 5 yrs seniority makes about $70,000/yr. The following figures are taken from salaryexpert.com for the Atlanta area:

Profession Average Salary High Salary

Plumber - $30,667 $40,943
Brick mason - $37,427 $48,726

They might even like their jobs to the point that they do not care about what people think about them.

Actually, whether they like their jobs or not probably has very little to do with why they do them. You seem not to understand what a job is all about, yip. A job is meant to earn you an income so you can support a family and afford to retire!

If he was reffering to me for degrading the profession, I'm sorry it was never intented, but I have had a ball and would change very little.

The fact that you have "had a ball" means very little. The fact that you have to continue working well past the age of 60 in order to afford to live means quite a lot.

 

[pilotyip]

Sorry you are unhappy.

I work because I like what I do. I am pround of the changes I have seen in our training at my airline since I given responsibility for the airline's training. Pilot's seem to like it, so does the FAA. In fact I am very happy. I have supported my family, own an airplane and can retire any time I want, and I have never made a six figure income. BTW plumbers in Detroit make a lot more, maybe they have a good union. Best of luck in your career.

 

[PCL_128]

BTW plumbers in Detroit make a lot more, maybe they have a good union.

Detroit Plumber Avg- $41,645 High- $55,600

This is what you are comparing us to. Do you think an air line Captain deserves to be paid so little for so much responsibility? You seem to imply so.

 

[pilotyip]

How does one measure responsibility? Is a on-demand cargo dawg working for $60K/yr less responsible than an RJ Captain? Is a P-3 PPC at age 28 flying over Iraq for $60K/yr less responsible than an RJ Captain? Is a USAF 1St Lt sitting is a missle silo for $40K/yr with Nuclear weapons less responsible than an RJ Captain? Again how does one measure responsiblitly?

 

[satpak77]

Phoenix Arizona is a lot more expensive.. but in the end, pilots as professionals should be able to live in the same neighborhoods as lawyers and doctors, and not $150,000 homes the size of apartments.

Call me a snob, I couldn't care less, or give a rats rear..

Yet another pilot who thinks this is a white-collar job. It is not. White-collar jobs require a combination of collegiate education along with passing government certification exams.

To become a professional pilot, you just need a high school diploma and government certification.

WHITE COLLAR --WHY--- NOT WHITE COLLAR

Doctor --MD degree--- Plumber
CPA ---BA/BS, CPA exam ---Truck Driver
Lawyer ---6+ yrs college, JD degree, State Bar Exam ---Pilot

V70T5, you want to know what happened to our profession? Sh!tbags like the above poster are what happened to this profession. He compares us to plumbers and brick layers, meanwhile we are responsible for tens of millions of dollars in property and hundreds of people's lives every day we go to work. There are too many pilots out there that think like this guy. That's what has caused the degradation of our profession.

You "handle" million dollar equipment and are "responsible" for the safety of 200 hundred passengers?

So if you are white collar, I guess the one dude driving a freight train with haz-mat, chemicals, god knows what, of 100 freight cars, thru Big City USA is white collar also. How much are five locomotives plus 100 loaded freight cars worth? More than your SAAB 340? More than your MD-80 with 1 million landing gear cycles? I suppose the Captain of that Carnival Cruise Ship with 1000 people, out in the middle of the ocean, the ship is worth????, is he white collar?

 

[B737Dvr]

Good God almighty!!!!

Why should pilots lives like Doc's and Lawyers? There is no comparison, Doctors are knowledge workers, and pilots are skilled workers. Doctors go to school for up to 20 years, work for slave wages until established in practice. Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can be a pilot, no high school diploma, no college BS degree required, no MD in Medicine like a doctor, just go to a trade school and develop a skill. Pilots unlike Doctors, CPA's and Engineers have no unique abilities that allow them to change jobs and be paid close to their last job. The job can be done by anyone with a Comm/MEL/Inst. High earnings are based upon seniority within a company's pay structure. When you can not live on a pilot’s pay, you go somewhere else where you can get better pay. I have had four non-flying jobs while waiting for a chance to get back into aviation. I have never seen a $100K in my life and I would be happy to work for that. I am still living my dream. If you want to be extremely rich, get out of flying and get into the U of M or Harvard MBA programs, then you can live with the Doc's and Lawyers. Or you can run a Muffler Shop like my brother in law, high school grad, who lives in an executive/professional neighborhood.

PCL_128....i also share your disbelieft! Let's all try and remember that we all come from different backgrounds and have different values and beliefs. There is alot of talk about the lowering of the bar, but what we see here is a lowering of the self esteem, and self worth.

The guy is right in one respect though, there is no comparison between doctors or lawyers.......when a doctor screws up.....he kills one at a time...
BUT WHEN A PILOT SCREWS UP, HE KILLS HUNDREDS AT A TIME!!!!

Doctors have a trade just like anyone else...that is they specialize in one thing and tell me something yippilot, if a top surgeon loses his hand in an accident, how useless does he become? yes i know he can go and now teach, but so can the pilot. I've thought about plan 'B" for a long time as part of my what if i lose a hand scenario and have come to the conclusion that there is alot of non flying jobs out there to do as well! My brain and the KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE THAT IS CONTAINED WITHIN puts makes my time very valuable.

Yes doctors go to school for 20 years and wow! how about that....Someone other than pilots can make ******************** wages while they climb the ladder....but you are wrong in one respect, not just anyone can be a pilot. This depends on what you define as "pilot".....someone who buzzes around the pattern or goes for that 100 burger is just a hobby or recreational pilot, but someone who has reached the level of jet transports requires a whole different level of skills, knowledge, determination, discipline and MATURITY.

If you perhaps mean that pilots will never make millions in a year, like a CEO or a stockbroker in Wall Street, then I will have to agree with you, HOWEVER, we have privelages that no money could buy, the view outside our office beats that of the president or any CEO on 5th ave. we carry hundreds of lives in our hands daily, some carry thousands.

my attempts at intellectual persuasions perhaps may not drill the point home, so let me ask you this......for the pilots on here that fly people, perhaps a casual stroll through the cabin on occasion will allow you to see the little girl or boy who couldnt be happier to be there and is going to see grandma or mickey in orlando, how important in their life are you?

for the cargo guy, how important are you that you deliver that heart to the waiting ambulance? How important are you to world commerce that you get your shipment to point B?

point is, pick your head up, stop depreciating yourself, perhaps read some self help book and repeat after me:

"I am just as good a person as a doctor or lawyer, and if I never crash an airplane, then i keep work away from both of them and then they wont be able to afford their homes, will move out and open up a vacancy for me and then they can live in my double wide"

 

[HA25]

I suppose the Captain of that Carnival Cruise Ship with 1000 people, out in the middle of the ocean, the ship is worth????, is he white collar?

Do you have any idea how much those people make?

I don't get it, you're a pilot (we assume) and yet you have no understanding of your self worth.. Like i said, lost cause.

 

[pilotyip]

Self Worth?

Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can fly an airplane. The same does not apply to many of the other professions listed on this thread. I have friends who are doctors, in fact some are former piltos who became doctor's. I understand my self worth, I am pleased with what I precieve as my self worth. I live my life to a standard pleases me and my family, I do not have to prove myself to anyone. I am in aviation because I like airplanes and most of the pilots I know. I hang around airports in my freetime, just like I did when I was a kid.