What airport has the worst controllers?

[TWA Dude]

Mar and Lrjtcaptain: thanks for the kind words. I'm excited. The J41 is a nightmare when the OAT gets above 65F (just like the J31 was, big surprise) so good riddance.

TC:

Thanks again to you too. I've heard stuff about those sultry Savannah Southern belles so you watch yourself as well. You also get a beach nearby (do you still look good in a swimsuit?). As far as fake blondes I enjoy brunettes just as well so it's no problem, and I'll be flying an Airbus with fake control feel so what's the difference between that and fake mammaries?

Oh, and I'll confess to no one other than my Maker.

Dude

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Good luck TWA Dude! I hope the view is a better for you.
P.S. Take some of the good St. Louis Cardinal luck and pass it on to the mighty Arizona Cardinals! I don't want to get my hopes up but I think Arizona may go 5-11 this year.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

watch out for the fake blondes with fake t*ts! /B]

There's no such thing as fakes. I mean, if you can kiss 'em, squeeze 'em and c** on them, they're real.

 

[ERfly]

As for the worst-a certain female who works ground in LGA.Can I get an amen?

Amen, Amen, Amen. We were on Spot 23 the other day. Company taxies up to 22 and calls for taxi. She gives him a left on A behind the Comair RJ that we were blocking. I called 4 more times and she told me I was in sequence. Finally, company on 22 asked if they were supposed to give way to us. She said no, follow the RJ. Finally after everyone was totally confused, she asked who was on 23 and I told her it was us, blocking the entire taxiway. She gave us Alpha, Echo short of 4. That's all it took.

The only good news is, when she's working, it won't be long before one of the good ones is on ground cleaning up the mess.

 

[Thedude]

OK ..for all you contollers out there I have a question.

Concerning squak codes
How are these assigned and I am curious about the 7000 series codes. I have been getting an unusally large number of 7000 series lately.

 

[A Squared]

I have been getting an unusally large number of 7000 series lately.

Have you been declaring an unususally large number of emergencies lately?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

every radar facility has a certain number of XPDR codes that are allocated strictly for them. So depending on what overlying facility you are at usually determines the code. Lets say for instance, NCT has 400 codes allocated between 6700-7100. They give you a free one not being used and thats what you get.

 

[Vector4fun]

OK ..for all you contollers out there I have a question.

Concerning squak codes
How are these assigned and I am curious about the 7000 series codes. I have been getting an unusally large number of 7000 series lately.

Dude,

For the complete answer, you'd have to refer to the 7110.66, National Beacon Code Allocation Plan, or NBCAP. Unfortunately, as far as I know, It's not available on line; not that you'd really want to try to read and understand it. I probably couldn't.

The basics are here:
Controller's Handbook, 7110.65, Chap 5, Section 2

Beacon Codes are divided into different sub-sets for different purposes. Any Terminal facility (Approach Control or Tracon) has it's own subset(s). My facility uses 0200. Then that subset is further divided. We have eight codes (0270-0277) that are perminantly assigned to local operators, such as local PD, Air Ambulance, a local Parachute club, etc. Then we have eight codes reserved for local IFR operations which cue the ARTS computer to provide Minimum Safe Altitude Warning (MSAW). The remainder of the 0200 codes are for VFR ops, and DO NOT generate MSAW alarms. Adjacent Terminal Facilities use 0300 and 0400.

If the flight is going to get radar service beyond our local airspace, then of course, that requires an IFR or VFR flight plan in the NAS, which is the same thing as saying in the HOST Computer at the Center. The Host then assigns a beacon code.

Right now, the NAS is very stretched for beacon codes. For one thing, there are an awful lot of IFR aircraft out there. For another, thousands of aircraft that, in the past, would likely have flown VFR without Flight Following are now required, or are choosing to use ATC services, both VFR and IFR. (Think TFR violations).

At times, available codes run so short, we start getting IFR flight plans (proposals) all with a 2400 codes. When that happens, we will wait until you call for clearance, and then, (just to show how kludged up the NAS can be) we have to go to the FDIO terminal, and send two amendment messages. First, we remove the equipment suffix from your aircraft type, (Change a T/B733/G to a T/B733), and then change it BACK. That generates a discrete code. (I've personally called the automation office at the Center to ask if there isn't a simpler way to force a discrete code assignment, and they say there isn't.) So now you know what the delay in getting a clearance or beacon code is sometimes about.



I'm sure the automation guys in the Centers are scrambling to make as many discrete codes available as possible, and probably has something to do with number of times you're asked to change codes during a flight. It would surely help if you guys could be pro-active in calling us to say when you've cancelled a flight, so we can remove the flight plan, or refrain from filing multiple flight plans to the extent possible. (I've personably seen a Lear with 5 flight plans to 5 destinations in 4 different States, all in the same hour). If you're just going to be late, call us, and we'll update the P-time, rather than file a second FP. On a day with IFR WX, it's not unusual to have 10-20% of flight plans go un-used....

 

[JediNein]

The worst controller I've encountered works ZLA. I told him "standby" to a heading and altitude assignment while diagnosing instrument failure in a piston single that was doing its best to kill me in IMC. This guy responds with a long diatribe, with two headings to intercept a routing change, expedite climb to a different altitude than the first, and a frequency change at machine gun pace. My third response of "standby" was met by another rapid fire, to which I accepted the frequency change.

My passenger set the frequency. We were greeted by complete silence instead of the expected Class B chatter.

Later, listening to the tapes we found that controller to have issued several instructions that put us further off course into the rocks, had I followed them. The more I told this guy “no” the more excited he got.

------

A standing ovation (and an "aircraft save") goes to the next controller. He got me, unannounced, not even showing on his scope, with no position information, and I wasn’t changing frequencies again. In between no-gyro vectors, groundspeed reports, and position updates for me; he cleared his scope; coordinated the possible shutdown of the Class B airport; obtained several weather reports to give me possible options (none); cleared other air traffic out of my way; and stretched the limits of 7110.65 as far as he could with two Sups over his shoulder.

Another round of applause goes to the countless controllers we work with everyday during the countless hours of flight we pilots spend in utter boredom. I prefer boring flights!

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[Freightdog75]

While I agree with an earlier post that CAE is awfully slow, I have to give them a few well-desserved-pats-on-the-back.

CLT apprch. Saved my a$$ 3 years ago when I had an engine failure in a single, IMC, all that good stuff. To long of story -- whatever -- SAVED MY A$$.

GRR apprch. Only 1-2 months ago going eastbound for PTK cockpit fire 11000ft over Lake Michigan (IMC again). Fantastic job working with me. Enough said. SAVED MY A$$.

For all the times you've gotten some of us out of some incredible situations. From the bottom of my heart. THANK YOU!

FD75

 

[Piedmonster]

MLI HANDS DOWN

 

[squakalt]

Just wondering what your thoughts are on controllers at certain airports. There are some out there that are just terrible, with moving traffic in and out. N8403J, hold short, traffic 10 mile final, a C-152. Then you go into places like DCA and the controllers squeeze you in so tight, it can be scary... I personally think the controllers at CAE are slowww.....

Thoughts ???

Hands down SLC the worst

 

[Eagle-ista]

The good, the bad, and the, well...

FAT has some punitive tower controllers.

VNY has Phil, he is the best. You can't miss his slow confident drawl.

LGB has one guy that's in dire need of anger management therapy. He always sound like he's about to shoot at you through the window.

SoCal Tracon has some great controllers, except when I'm getting slowed to let SkyWest pass me. I don't mind them passing me, as long as they can do it without slowing me down to accomodate them. Or as long as they aren't doing 270+ at 5,000 feet on a downwind to try to get ahead of me.

SAN has 3 women named Karen. Have a blast and say "Hi Karen" just to surprise them, you have about a 3 out of 4 chance of freaking them out.

The guy at SBP, he also used to say "you go now..." instead of "cleared for take-off". I'm sure his phraseology ws corrected by a Ross flight one day.

Las Vegas approach was always very good when I worked there.

 

[Insatiable]

BOS is great. Very friendly, and they do a great job.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Hands down SLC the worst

Why do you say that? Explanation?

 

[English]

I was in SLC this weekend and had excellent handling.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I was in SLC this weekend and had excellent handling.

Yeah, but how were the controllers?

 

[English]

walked right into that one...

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Doh!!!

 

[Sphincter Boy]

CLE Center

 

[Jester119]

Fxe

FXE in Lauderdale are great, When most controllers are on the stress break point and start yelling basically they remain calm and get you in asap.

 

[F/O]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned ground control at ORD? I don't know that they're the "worst," but c'mon: no readbacks, multiple clearances per transmission, punishment for those who request clarification...

I mean, it's the only place I tell my FO to "just say 'roger,' and we'll try not to hit anybody."

Does it have to be that way?

Welcome to the big leagues, my friend...

I love it when they tell you "<callsign> go now!..."

 

[F/O]

Dulles, especially after the recent traffic spike due to Indy Air starting up.

Ground is just appalling. Aircraft stepping all over each other. Then at some point the controller usually gets frazzled and tells people to stop calling.

They desperately need a ground metering frequency. We shouldn't be calling ground, they should be calling us.

 

[DrRaptor]

I'm sure the automation guys in the Centers are scrambling to make as many discrete codes available as possible, and probably has something to do with number of times you're asked to change codes during a flight. It would surely help if you guys could be pro-active in calling us to say when you've cancelled a flight, so we can remove the flight plan, or refrain from filing multiple flight plans to the extent possible. (I've personably seen a Lear with 5 flight plans to 5 destinations in 4 different States, all in the same hour). If you're just going to be late, call us, and we'll update the P-time, rather than file a second FP. On a day with IFR WX, it's not unusual to have 10-20% of flight plans go un-used....

You might want to give your buddies at the AFSS's a call and remind them of that. I work in Operations for a Part 121 operation, and we've tried calling them to cancel out or extend FP's and the response I typically get is - "have the crew call ATC and they'll do it." Part of the problem is that half the time the crew CAN'T call any ATC because they're either not in the plane or they're already flying on another flight that is leading up to the one I'm trying to change or they ended up flying a different flight and I'm trying to clear out a duplicate FP.


Onto the subject -

I agree that the BJC guys can be real hard-a$$es at times. Had more problems with them refusing last-minute changes and intersection departures than DEN or APA. Hell, when I went to DEN, they ASKED if I wanted to use the intersection or go full length. I ended up taking full length because I needed extra time to get the plane setup and brief my passenger, who was on her first flight in a light plane (my Mom) so I didn't want to rush through the process.

I know several Military ATC types, and they have to stick to their books a lot because of their regs. The F-16s tend to be a big problem because apparently they have issues flying ILS's behind another aircraft at times. I've heard two reasons why, but I do know I got radar buzzed by an F-16 in my C-172 while flying into Buckley one day for Civil Air Patrol, which was kinda odd, and that when I was flying into Fargo with UND, the F-16's routinely got priority over me due to either fuel situations or because they required "due clearance" for the localizer beam. I have no idea what it means, just that it was the reason given by the ATC at FAR. Although the FAR guys were the best when I ended up coming into FAR after a long cross-country leg and there was an NWA 747 doing touch-and-go's in the pattern.

 

[FlyWolf]

MKE....

is the Worst .... Slow long vectors
They had us slow down to 150 (in a DC9) and how about a couple of S turn while you'r flying soo slow and everything is hanging down....you would think there is someone a mile ahead...noo 5 mile of clear final....go figure

 

[strftwb]

Apa!!!!!!!

 

[metrodriver]

A few years back STL was horrible: 1000' altitude changes and 10kt airspeed changes. Way too much talking was the result with missing calls or possible altitude deviations as a result. they would stop departures if there was one thunderstorm 20 miles out on one of the departure routes. Not even the flexibility to deviate a few miles. Since the demise of TWA things are not so bad anymore.
FXE: usually pretty good, but also a high rate of (near) mid-airs. Recently: you are number 9 for the runway (landing). This was a mix of light singles, lear jets, G4, and 5 planes waiting for take-off.
The crunch with transponder codes shows its ugly head many times in Nassau, where MIA center runs out of codes (all traffic inbound to the US gets a discrete code for Customs) and you can wait 45 minutes for a clearance. Also a lousy airport when it comes to ATC. No departures if there is anybody on less than a 5 mile final. They also get stressed out when things get busy

 

[Lead Sled]

I flew bizjets for a company for nearly 15 years where we literally flew coast-to-coast and border-to-border on a weekly basis - to all of the lower 48 States and throughout all of Canada. I averaged 50 hours per month for the entire period.

WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE WORST CONTROLLERS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY ARE FOUND IN CHAROLETTE, NORTH CAROLINA.

You will run into pockets of irritating controllers at every ARTCC, Approach/Departure, and tower from time-to-time; but on a day in, day out basis, no one can hold a candle to the approach controllers at CLT. It seems like if there is a cloud anywhere within a 500 mile radius of the airport you can expect the handling to deteriate. Holding? It's pretty rare at most airports, but you can count on it from our good friends at CLT.

Lead Sled

 

[414Flyer]

And I think I would gladly take those horrible controllers, over the "controllers" that I have to deal with overseas in India this summer.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Reminds me of trying to talk to Ho Chi Minh center. Man, those guys are hard to hear AND understand. Gimme an asshole controller over that noise anyday.