We're Takin It Back!

[smeggler]

PCL 128 is a PFT bastard. Now he thinks he is all high and mighty because he is at AirTran and he can talk down to us regional pukes. Well guess what dipsh*t, Airtran, if you haven't figured out yet is basically a regional with only slightly bigger airplanes. And if that BS TA passes you will see exactly what I mean. Good luck to you and I have nothing against those at Airtran (especially Lear70) but the rest of us would rather not listen to the rantings of some PFT d*@chebag! Congrats on your job but never forget where you came from! Its PFT pukes who help drive down the compensation for new FOs. I mean why pay someone for the job if that person is willing to pay for it themselves.
Oh and by the way I am represented by ALPO. And at my company our motto is fly now grieve later. Which basically means the company can interpret the contract however they want and maybe 12 months from now I might be able to grieve it and possibly get a ruling within a couple of years and by then who cares anyway. Hell our company routinely decides to not follow the contract and I don't hear jack sh*t from the union except for we are filing a grievance. Months later there has still been no response. If any of you Skywest guys and gals are listening I am telling you it is no different from what you have now except the only difference is that you will be paying dues. Rant over and PCL shut the F*ck up!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, the facts do back that up. You simply refuse to acknowledge the facts. True or false, Joey: the ASA MEC's budget exceeds the amount of dues revenue that the ASA pilot group sends to the Association. As a former ST, you should know that the answer to that question is a resounding TRUE.

That fact by itself is true.... however, for the rest of the story.....

1. Money alone can't trump the competition that management is using with the "portfolio" concept.... That will only be overcome when the mainline groups and ALPA national decide that true "brand scope" is a requirement of any future contract.... I won't hold my breath, but that is what is required.....

2. Because of that money that the regionals receive from ALPA, they become beholden to the mainline and to ALPA national.

In summary, we receive more money than we put in, but we still have to compete for flying, and we are beholden to our "masters".... Thanks but No Thanks!

You should do a little bit more reading, Joey. The AFL-CIO is opposed to this law because 70% of the SSA "mismatch" cases are of legal United States citizens and are only caused by clerical errors. There are much better ways to enforce immigration law that don't put legal workers at risk.

Maybe you should do a little more reseach before you shoot your mouth off.....

New Orleans - Adopting a significant change in policy, the American labor movement called for blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants yesterday and an end to most sanctions against employers who hire them.
In past decades, labor unions often saw immigrant workers as the enemy, accusing them of depressing wages and breaking strikes. But the executive council of the AFL-CIO adopted a more sympathetic approach, contending that too often, U.S. immigration rules have enabled employers to exploit illegal immigrants.

That came from:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/021700-02.htm

Comments?

Couldn't be about dues money in a declining membership environment now could it?

 

[TurboAWD]

Just ask the East Coast Airways Pilot group how they feel about how ALPA represented them.

ALPA National represented them just fine. Their elected reps went to the integration negotiations with unreasonable goals, and the result is their pilots got screwed.

Turbo

 

[PCL_128]

In summary, we receive more money than we put in, but we still have to compete for flying, and we are beholden to our "masters".... Thanks but No Thanks!

So, in summary, it has absolutely nothing to do with money. Thanks for proving my point for me, Joe. As for the master/slave relationship that you keep referring to, I've asked you repeatedly for your ideas to fix the current system, but you still provide none. I am all in favor of a system that ends the regional/mainline divide, but I have yet to hear any workable solutions.

Maybe you should do a little more reseach before you shoot your mouth off.....

Wow, you dug deep for that one, Joey! That article was written over 7 years ago when Clinton was still in office. I'm honestly not sure what the AFL-CIO's current position is on amnesty, but I haven't heard anything lately from them in support of it.

 

[DX Rick]

Just as I suspected, no comments on the actual facts. Just more ignorance from the anti-ALPA zealots.

Mr Pro ALPA.
How do you feel, knowing you PAID an Eastern SCAB for your first job?
Second, why did you leave an ALPA carrier for an non ALPA carrier?

You do nothing but spin and deflect questions.

 

[PCL_128]

Second, why did you leave an ALPA carrier for an non ALPA carrier?

I left a regional for a career airline. Despite it not being ALPA (which I would prefer), it is a union carrier. I did not apply to any non-union carriers during my job search. Although I feel that ALPA is the best option, there's certainly nothing wrong with having an internal union if that's what the majority wants. The important thing is having representation so that you can contribute to pattern bargaining.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So, in summary, it has absolutely nothing to do with money. Thanks for proving my point for me, Joe. As for the master/slave relationship that you keep referring to, I've asked you repeatedly for your ideas to fix the current system, but you still provide none. I am all in favor of a system that ends the regional/mainline divide, but I have yet to hear any workable solutions.

There needs to be one list, and one voice for each brand.... until that time, we will continue to compete with each other..... union or not, ALPA or not, we will compete.... Brand scope initiated by the mainlines and ALPA national will be needed to accomplish this.... however I won't hold my breath...

Wow, you dug deep for that one, Joey! That article was written over 7 years ago when Clinton was still in office. I'm honestly not sure what the AFL-CIO's current position is on amnesty, but I haven't heard anything lately from them in support of it.

The AFL CIO hasn't changed it's tune since then.... they are still opposed to fighting illegal immigration.... you have become quite the Democratic lap dog in addition to you Herndon lap dog duties....

 

[PCL_128]

There needs to be one list, and one voice for each brand.... until that time, we will continue to compete with each other..... union or not, ALPA or not, we will compete.... Brand scope initiated by the mainlines and ALPA national will be needed to accomplish this.... however I won't hold my breath...

Brand scope would have been great when the brand was easily definable. When I went to work for Pinnacle, the brand was easy to define: NWA, PCL (then EXA), and MSA. Now NewCo (umm, I mean Compass) has been added to the list, and PCL flies for Delta also. How do you combine this "brand" into one seniority list now? Do the PCL guys get added to the NWA list, or the DAL list? Do they just get left out in the cold, despite being ALPA members? The DAL brand is the hardest to define. How many feeder carriers does DAL now use? Is it up to 10 now? Some are non-ALPA, some are non-union, how do you combine this "brand" into a single list, Joe? The brand scope ship has sailed. The mainline pilots FUBARed that one pretty good. Time to look for a new solution.

The AFL CIO hasn't changed it's tune since then.... they are still opposed to fighting illegal immigration.... you have become quite the Democratic lap dog in addition to you Herndon lap dog duties....

Check your other thread. I'm with you on this one...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Brand scope would have been great when the brand was easily definable. When I went to work for Pinnacle, the brand was easy to define: NWA, PCL (then EXA), and MSA. Now NewCo (umm, I mean Compass) has been added to the list, and PCL flies for Delta also. How do you combine this "brand" into one seniority list now? Do the PCL guys get added to the NWA list, or the DAL list? Do they just get left out in the cold, despite being ALPA members? The DAL brand is the hardest to define. How many feeder carriers does DAL now use? Is it up to 10 now? Some are non-ALPA, some are non-union, how do you combine this "brand" into a single list, Joe? The brand scope ship has sailed. The mainline pilots FUBARed that one pretty good. Time to look for a new solution.

It wasn't too late when ASA and CMR filed the PID.... I actually supported ALPA at that time..... Your right that they "FUBARed" this, but many of us at the regional level "told them so" long before they "FUBARed" it....

It may be too late to reverse it now, I don't now... however don't ask me to accept this failure... I will continue to do what is best for me despite the failures of ALPA, and I will never support ALPA again until it reverses it's behavior....

Check your other thread. I'm with you on this one...

That's progress.....
:beer:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There really is no future in the airlines. Same stuff that has been going on for years.

Agreed! Many jobs have been eliminated over time due to outsourcing or technology. Air Line Pilots are no different....

Get informed... the globalization is here...

The simple fact is this:

ALPA has NEVER been in control, and, given their history, never will. That said, they have nothing to "take back."

This is correct. ALPA is not in control. The stuffy old white men in pinstripe suits determined a long time ago that labor will not shutdown the railroads or the airlines.

Now, you [the reader] think you are one of the golden boys: An Air LINE pilot? Well, no one really gives a steamer about you. The pax want thier cheap tickets, management wants the jet flown when, how, and where they want it and your wife wants the house note paid. (or she is making her own bank and really doesn't care what you do for a living..)

The only people that care about Air Line Pilots are Air Line Pilots. So you can man up and care about your self or you can whine and complain that no one cares about you and life is not fair....

 

[DX Rick]

The important thing is having representation so that you can contribute to pattern bargaining.

Ah yes, but in other threads you preach that it HAS to be ALPA because of their "resources" and how no one compares to them.

Second. You haven't answered my question about how YOU PAID an Eastern Airlines SCAB...a well known EAL Scab, for your first "job" in the airline industry.

 

[PCL_128]

Ah yes, but in other threads you preach that it HAS to be ALPA because of their "resources" and how no one compares to them.

That's right. Nothing compares to the level of resources that ALPA provides. That's exactly why I said that I'd prefer for us to merge into ALPA at some point. That's up to the pilot group here, and hopefully we'll make that decision at some point.

Second. You haven't answered my question about how YOU PAID an Eastern Airlines SCAB...a well known EAL Scab, for your first "job" in the airline industry.

Nothing to really answer about it. Everyone on this board has known that for a long time. Stupid thing I did a long time ago and now regret. What questions exactly do you have about it?

 

[A350]

PCL:

My main problem is this incessant ALPA cheerleading....as I am sure you are tired of my ALPA sucks mantra. However, I think you cannot possibly believe the crap you write.

First, you claim ALPA isn't about money. I disagree. From the list I have seen, ALPA pays a whole lot of coin to some people who basically do jack. Secondly, your statement of UAL paying $15 mil in and getting $5 mil out is extremely telling. ALPA is a modern day Robin Hood. They take from the UAL group, and give to the regionals.....the very regionals that have taken flying and jobs from them since the 9/11 attacks. Do you not see a genuine conflict of interest?

Mainline pilots didn't screw the pooch on this brand scope thing all on their own....they had help in the form of great leadership from ALPA national and the minions of pilots all scrambling into the profession, some by the high road and some paying for their jobs.

How you can come on here and pontificate is beyond me. While I don't believe PFT is as dubious to the profession as some, it amazes me that there are those who did what they did to get the job and then b$#%^ about the conditions in it and how the rest of us screwed up.

A350

 

[siucavflight]

You regional guys just don't get it. You cost ALPA far more than you'll ever pay in!!! You hear that giant sucking sound? That's the sound of the regional ALPA carriers sucking all of the dues income from the legacy carriers who actually pay for the ALPA services that you use. If ALPA was "all about the money" as you say, then ALPA would dump every regional airline and only focus on the legacies. There's no money to be made in representing regional pilot groups.

You have a very good point. We do use more money then what we pay in. I would like to see the regionals represent themselves. Eagle has been trying for a while now to form their own pilot groups. ALPA at the regional level does not work.

I am not even sure that ALPA is a real union. My father is in construction. He is represented by Local 150 here in Chicago, all of the members are paid the same wages regardless of the company they work at. You never see them trying to undercut each other like we do here at airlines.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

And still, the anti union guys offer no solutions. They're happy when a union carrier raises the bar for them, and they keep their 2%. Then they do their best to get hired at a major , where they will gladly join a union.

You see guys/girls- it's not really about unions, it's ALL ABOUT THEM!!!