well that was quick.....

[brokeflyer]

no offence b but you dont understand the question.

just nevermind

 

[imacdog]

Don't hold your breath dog...

These two latest incarnations are just making stuff up now. Not dealing with facts but just the "what if's" of a doomsday scenario that wont happen. I think I'm going to follow Grizz's advice...

True dat, G4 tipped his hand in this thread and the other with his post, in reality no one like an undercutter except management and union busters. We all already knew about B, was just waiting for some sort of proof on ol' G4. "And there it is".

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

That was funny because he couldn't even cite the specifics I asked him for. I also enjoyed his, "kid" comment. Let's see I have been on this board way longer, have over 25 years experience in aviation, worked my way up from the bottom and probably have more time from the outer marker inbound than he has total. I love how they have to try and demean you. Good stuff. Give us specifics B19. You won't because if you do it will reveal that your management and just trolling on here to spread your FUD. It's truly pathetic when all you can do is come up with some business school scenario about the destructiveness of unions. I'm sure you think Wolfe, Ornstein and Lorenzo were great leaders in the aviation industry and it was all the unions' fault at their respective companies. I am far from a union fanatic but I would sure never work another aviation job without one. The worst ones I ever had were at non-union carries. Sorry but need to go do your job and run the company if that's what you do.

What do you know about Lorenzo? I love it when kids like you throw his name around by being so uninformed.

Did he save more jobs, or lose more jobs?

How many companies did he save vs. how many did he lose?

There have been plenty of books written by left wing union supporters, but none ever written by those that had to fight off the unions to save jobs and keep companies from being destroyed by union oppression.

Before you go throwing around that one name, you need to see how many pilots are retired today from airlines that were saved by him.

One last thing, remember it was the mechanic's union that doomed Eastern. Do your homework, and also realize that the time frame that happened in is considerably different than it is today.

I'm not a "Lorenzo" disciple by any means, but I'm educated in the facts, and that was he saved a lot of careers too. He did what nobody else had the courage to do, face unions head on and deal with them the way they needed to be dealt with.

This isn't the first time I've written this on these boards, the fact is that I understand what happens from both sides of the house.

You on the other hand, only look at it from one side, which makes you uninformed and the exact kind of union member that costs people their hard earned careers.

It's truly a shame that there aren't more leaders out there to stand up to the stupidity unions represent. There are so few truly effective unions, and those that are get lost in all the bad rhetoric pilots like you pile onto the industry.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

Don't hold your breath dog...

These two latest incarnations are just making stuff up now. Not dealing with facts but just the "what if's" of a doomsday scenario that wont happen. I think I'm going to follow Grizz's advice...

The moment a single pilot was furloughed, the doomsday scenario happened, the contract failed to protect those it was designed to protect.

What is your doomsday scenario, the company going out of business?

You don't give a sweet crap about any other pilot at NJ as long as you draw a paycheck do you? That's the difference between me and those union supporters on this board.

I care about every pilot, every family and flying job. YOU clearly don't.

If the CBA was done right, there would be no furloughs and no pilot would ever be worried about the bank account paying his paycheck would ever be short of funds. I'd rather work for a CEO making millions and millions in a profitable company than one where a union has pushed it to the brink of bankruptcy.

THAT'S JOB SECURITY.

 

[CA1900]

Netjets IS making millions and millions.

The pilots DID avert a furlough by cutting things, right up until a criminal was brought in to run things and he pillaged the company in a run to take over Berkshire.

As for the money returning when things improve, that sounds good, but in reality it never happens.

 

[G4dude]

so once again, ill put it another way so you understand. I know a guy that will fly your gulfstream for $20k per year. So you need to take a cut down to $19,000 per year or you will be out of work....and also you need to work 20 days per month now too.

how would you feel about that?

I would change careers, with regret. But the job belongs to the company, not to me.

 

[G4dude]

Probably the same way I would feel if a cheaper cell phone with equal service and plan came around.

If my company didn't want to lower the cost to be competitive, I'd have to go with the more affordable cell phone.

In today's economy, pilots are willing to fly for less because many of them simply want to work in their chosen fields. Doesn't mean they are not as good as a company pilot, just means that they are willing to work and feed their family.

If a company wanted to terminate me because they found a cheaper pilot, that would mean I'd need to lower my cost to be competitive. I'd rather be making less money than be unemployed.

It's a concept unions don't understand. They'd rather see everybody out of work instead.

Bravo!

 

[G4dude]

so once again, ill put it another way so you understand. I know a guy that will fly your gulfstream for $20k per year. So you need to take a cut down to $19,000 per year or you will be out of work....and also you need to work 20 days per month now too.

how would you feel about that?

Or go fly for another company who paid me more. Which I am looking at doing now, due to the activities of our beloved union.

 

[OPECJet]

Or go fly for another company who paid me more. Which I am looking at doing now, due to the activities of our beloved union.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[G4dude]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I do so enjoy engaging my union brethren in these intellectual and civilized discussions. The mutual respect of professionals warms the cockles of my heart.