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Well G. Dam! SWA considers INTL flying---someday, maybe, hopefully

General Lee

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ATW Daily News

Southwest targets Europe, South America with long-haul low-cost model

Wednesday September 16, 2009

Southwest Airlines plans to open international routes to Europe and South America, although so far there is "no timetable" for the move, Director-Network Strategic Planning Lee Lipton told ATWOnline at the World Route Development Forum in Beijing.
"Europe and South America are our first choice. . .but currently we are still evaluating our options," Lipton said. Southwest Chairman, President and CEO Gary Kelly said last month that the LCC is "seriously considering" operating international flights to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean as soon as 2011.

Lipton told this website he is confident that the "low-cost, long-haul" business model can work for the carrier "just as AirAsia X and Jetstar have achieved success," adding, "it could even become a trend for LCCs in the coming days."

Interestingly, Spring Airlines, the most successful Chinese LCC, also plans to launch international service. It intends to operate to neighboring Asian countries in time for Shanghai's Expo 2010 starting in May.
However, Assn. of Asia Pacific Airlines DG Andrew Herdman expressed reservations about the low-cost long-haul model, saying, "It's too early to tell if it will be a trend for the future."

He contrasted the normal low-cost business model--narrowbody aircraft, single-class cabins and online ticket sales--with a typical long-haul operation. "Once the LCCs enter the international market, they have to comply with international standards, which means they have to operate a two-class cabin on widebody aircraft and sell their tickets not only through their website but also by GDS," he told ATWOnline. "All these would make low-cost carriers look like full-service airlines, as they have a lot of convergence with carriers that choose the standard model." Herdman concluded: "I wouldn't say it can't work, but it's quite challenging."

by Katie Cantle




Wow, that would be FANTASTIC. The business model that has made them so wildly profitable would be changed, and that could mean they are in panic mode. Kelly got creamed by Bedford for F9, and costs are rising. Maybe they can add some RJs next, and then wages will come down. Enjoy that, and make sure you have a LBB hub for INTL flights. Everyone would love to go there from London, Tokyo, and Buenos Aires. Whatever you do though, start off slow for INTL flying. Try Canada first. Those crazy accents may be confusing, but nothing like the French Controllers......


Ryanair "threatened" to have transatlantic flights after the Irish Gov't said no to an Aer Lingus merger. I wonder what SWA is thinking? And, how long would it take them to get set up for INTL ops like nonstop to Europe? How many people want to go "low fare" across the pond? When did that work last? Fun times.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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General Lee

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Oh my gawd, things are moving fast, SWA got Canada approval already...

Southwest Airlines Co. carrying on business as Southwest Airlines (applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for a licence to operate the service set out in the title. The application was complete on May 20, 2009.

The applicant has been designated pursuant to the Air Transport Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the United States of America signed on March 12, 2007 (Agreement), to operate scheduled international services.

The applicant filed an affidavit attesting that within the twelve months preceding the filing of the application it did not contravene section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (CTA) in that it has not sold, caused to be sold or publicly offered for sale in Canada transportation in respect of the applied for air service without holding the required licence. The applicant has also undertaken in respect of the air service applied for that it will not contravene section 59 of the CTA prior to the issuance of the applied for licence. The Agency is not aware of any evidence that the applicant contravened section 59 of the CTA within the preceding twelve months.

The Agency has reviewed the application and is satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements of subsection 69(1) of the CTA. The Agency is also satisfied that the pertinent terms and conditions of the Agreement have been complied with. Accordingly, the Agency will issue to the applicant a licence to operate a scheduled international service.

Pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA, the Agency deems the terms and conditions set out below to be consistent with the Agreement and will therefore include them in the licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision.

The licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision shall be subject, in addition to the conditions prescribed by the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended (ATR), to the requirements to hold a Canadian aviation document issued by the Minister of Transport, and to have prescribed liability insurance coverage as set out in section 7 of the ATR, and to the following terms and conditions to which the licence is made subject pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA:

1. The Licensee is authorized to operate the route(s) set out in the Agreement.

2. The Licensee is prohibited from carrying local traffic between points in Canada.

3. The operation of the scheduled international service authorized herein shall be conducted subject to the provisions of the Agreement and to any arrangements related thereto as may be agreed to between Canada and the United States of America.

4. Unless terminated at an earlier date in accordance with the CTA or the Agreement, this licence shall terminate at the termination or expiration of the Agreement, or upon the effective date of any amendment to the Agreement which shall have the effect of eliminating the rights herein authorized





Quick! Break out the manuals and do sims about flying into Toronto! You have to say "Eh" a lot, and say "Thanks hosers, cleared to land..." Also, when Clearance asks you when you are ready to push, make sure you say "in a BOAT 15 minutes, eh?"


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

N1atEcon

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Wow, that would be FANTASTIC. The business model that has made them so wildly profitable would be changed, and that could mean they are in panic mode. Kelly got creamed by Bedford for F9, and costs are rising. Maybe they can add some RJs next, and then wages will come down. Enjoy that, and make sure you have a LBB hub for INTL flights. Everyone would love to go there from London, Tokyo, and Buenos Aires. Whatever you do though, start off slow for INTL flying. Try Canada first. Those crazy accents may be confusing, but nothing like the French Controllers......

General Lee woke up on the wrong side of the bed again. Flame bait!

Why do you care so much about this F9 stuff? Everybody over here has moved on and could care less.
 

SELFloadingCRGO

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Well I for one have no worries, if they were able to teach you how to fly over water General I'm VERY sure everyone here will be able to.
And just don't you go worrying, we'll gladly leave all those hairy Greecian women just for you since we know you're attached. Which somehow explains your infatuation with LBB...;)


SLC
:cool:
 

General Lee

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Well I for one have no worries, if they were able to teach you how to fly over water General I'm VERY sure everyone here will be able to.
And just don't you go worrying, we'll gladly leave all those hairy Greecian women just for you since we know you're attached. Which somehow explains your infatuation with LBB...;)


SLC
:cool:

I cannot wait to see your FANTASTIC Southwest A380s flying across the pond. But, Kelly told me a little secret. Instead of stopping for a layover like most normal airlines, the key to Kelly's plan is that he will crew the A380 with 6 pilots, and do 6 legs for the first day---BWI to London Stansted, and then onto Paris Beuvais, onto Rome Ciampino, Beirut, Jeddah, and finally Kano, Nigeria. That 1 2 3 rule in Kano is gonna be a BLAST, and you will be yelling through the Malaria induced vomiting--"this is FRICKEN FANTASTIC, burp belch, yetch!" LBB will never look so good. Kano will be the new LBB. Enjoy!


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

ACL65PILOT

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I cannot wait to see your FANTASTIC Southwest A380s flying across the pond. But, Kelly told me a little secret. Instead of stopping for a layover like most normal airlines, the key to Kelly's plan is that he will crew the A380 with 6 pilots, and do 6 legs for the first day---BWI to London Stansted, and then onto Paris Beuvais, onto Rome Ciampino, Beirut, Jeddah, and finally Kano, Nigeria. That 1 2 3 rule in Kano is gonna be a BLAST, and you will be yelling through the Malaria induced vomiting--"this is FRICKEN FANTASTIC, burp belch, yetch!" LBB will never look so good. Kano will be the new LBB. Enjoy!


Bye Bye--General Lee


Thanks for the laugh.

Best of luck on the international. It is a different animal than domestic. I bet you do SA, and LA long before you go to Europe. The North Atlantic is already too crowded. It might get ugly to pick on that market.
 

Headfake14

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Anybody else wondering WHY would SWA...or anyone else...show their hand regarding this.

Talk about laying your cards face up before the flop...
 

runwayjockey

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Anybody else wondering WHY would SWA...or anyone else...show their hand regarding this.

Talk about laying your cards face up before the flop...


This has been talked about, wrote about, and kicked around for the last 3 years. What rock did you just crawl out from under?
 

FBN0223

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Europe? South America? You've got to kidding!!! We're talking about an airline based in Texas that doesn't even fly to Mexico.
 

Full of LUV

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There's a TA on the table....

Anybody else wondering WHY would SWA...or anyone else...show their hand regarding this.

Talk about laying your cards face up before the flop...

Every company that needs a TA signed puts some candy on the table. Usually it's some "potential" plane order, but in this case, it's SWA flyin out of the lower 48.
Luv
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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SWA B787 in FRA (or they skip FRA and use Duesseldorf, Muenchen, Hamburg and/or Stuttgart. Berlin would be tough)..... less than five years..... maybe Latin A or South A first.....
From their hubs....

LAS, MCO, BWI.... maybe DEN and PHL...

How would SWA feed on the int'l end? No Star or SkyTeam Alliance....


The senior cadre of SWA pilots will be like a teenage goofballs first time trying to fly 787's int'l. The junior SWA pilot cadre with glass and int'l experience will compensate nicely for grandpa's lacking.... (oops..did I say that outloud) :eek: :)


The point? SWA has to grow... Int'l is one way to do it... but it is a tough market.... Can SWA instill LUV culture in German ground crews? Or LA/SA employees? Maybe... probably.. (thank god SWA embraces unions, unlike jB) But going int'l for SWA is a radical change..... very radical..... good luck guys....
 
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XR650R

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Please No! I can't stuff another update in my FOM!! :) Oh yeah- about the training.. We got that covered- a couple more DVD's and we'll be right as rain!
 

FBN0223

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it would be bit more than an FOM update before the let ya'll saddle up for EHAM, oh sorry, that's Amsterdam.
 

stall022

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Southwest does not have any other choice but to go international. They have already saturated the US market to the point where they compete against themselves. Which means revenue remains flat. If they stay just in the US at some point expenditures will meet and exceed revenue.

If they want to keep feeding the monster they have created then they need a new supply of revenue
 

contrail67

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So does this mean the company will make you buy a type rating on the 787 or 380.....THAT will be EXPENSIVE!!! Start saving your pennies.
 

waveflyer

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This is news?

What about BOS, LGA, PHL, and MSP do you guys not understand? One step at a time...
 

328dude

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Geez Bill, your in a foul mood today. We all know you wish certain death to all us SW types.
 

AA767AV8TOR

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Nothing but a big rumor.

AA767AV8TOR

Read on:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/09/southwest-airlines-to-europe-s.html

Southwest Airlines to Europe, South America? Not true, Southwest says

9:40 AM Wed, Sep 16, 2009

Terry Maxon/Reporter

Air Transport World has quite a scoop Wednesday out of Beijing, quoting a Southwest Airlines manager as saying the carrier has plans to start service to Europe and South America.

To quote its online story, which also showed up as the number one item on the Air Transport Association's daily SmartBrief collection of Wednesday's media stories:

"Southwest Airlines plans to open international routes to Europe and South America, although so far there is 'no timetable' for the move, Director-Network Strategic Planning Lee Lipton told ATWOnline at the World Route Development Forum in Beijing.

But there's a problem. A Southwest spokesman says unequivocably that "there's no truth to it. Lee Lipton was very surprised to read it. He had no discussion with that reporter. He's never said those things."

Well, dang. As a reporter, one wonders about the disconnect. The Air Transport World certainly didn't make it all up. Maybe something was said as a hypothetical, and it became a certainty in the story.

Like Sen. Snort said in a long ago "Grin and Bear It" comic strip: "Yeah, I said it, but not in headlines that big!"

UPDATE: Southwest spokesman Brad Hawkins elaborated on the story and Southwest's intentions this afternoon.

"Flying long-haul, meaning beyond Canada, Mexico, Caribbean or Hawaii, does not fit into our current plans, and we are not actively considering it at all," Hawkins said.

It could happen someday," he added. "But I think there will be others doing so long before we even seriously contemplate such an operation."

Hawkins said Southwest is taking a market-based approach to its international strategy.

"That means we are studying opportunities in many parts of the world in much the same way we do in the U.S.," he said.

After Southwest decides if it wants to get into a market, the next question is whether it should do the flying itself or through a partner.

"For now, the only opportunities we are considering for our own flying are those that can be reached -- and make sense -- with our current fleet of 737s," he said.

Southwest will prioritize potential markets from a number of factors, such as how much revenue the markets might bring, how they tie into Southwest's domestic strategy and how easy they can be accessed.

"Given how early we are at developing our codeshares, the 'ease of access' question is a big one for any place outside North America, even though we expect that to be a partnership too," Hawkins said.

Southwest chairman, president and CEO Gary Kelly has been saying that Southwest may begin its own international service as early as 2011, while adding that is in no way certain.

Back in February, Kelly talked to us about Southwest's intent to fly its own airplanes on international routes. Said Kelly:

"I would guess it's within five years. But we have a long way to go before we'll be ready to make that judgment.

"There are just some markets that don't make sense for us. Either the technology required to serve a market or the business needs of that market are such that it doesn't fit our operating style, i.e. it's a smaller airplane or a bigger airplane. Right now, we don't want to deviate from our single aircraft type.

"Then there are other market dynamics, for example, in the Caribbean or could be Mexico or Canada for that matter, where ... Allegiant Air for example flies several times per week between city pairs. Well, that's not Southwest Airlines.

"We just have to continue to search for markets that meet our operating style, where we can be profitable and at the same time simultaneously we are trying to evolve our operating style so we are more flexible and can do more things."
 
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