Washington Post: DL & NWA to file by Sept

[WillowRunVortex]

You obviuosly have never been in anything that remotely resembles a union

My airline probably has the same pilot union as yours. The difference being that the management at my airline has not successfully turned the work groups on each other as NWA management has successfully done. The airline that I work for still has a "company spirit" among its employees (read labor vs. management). The pilots at my airline know that they hold the trump card when it comes to any labor dispute among any of the work groups. They support these other work groups because they realize that it is just a matter of time before we are butting heads with management and we would like to think that they would support us if "replacement pilots" were being trained to take our jobs.

P.S: NWA pilots, have fun flying those "highly maintained aircraft" after every flunky out there with an A&P works on your planes.

What goes around comes around. Nuff Said

 

[320AV8R]

My airline probably has the same pilot union as yours.

Are you sure ? Do you not know ? Too bad you don't know the way unions operate.

P.S: NWA pilots, have fun flying those "highly maintained aircraft" after every flunky out there with an A&P works on your planes.

Most of the replacement mechanics are furloughed NWA mechanics, most with 8-10 years experience. Of course AMFA may reach a settlement, who knows.

Either way, I bet you'd be the first in line if that was the only way to commute home.

320AV8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Are you sure ? Do you not know ?

I dont "know" because of your previous disclaimer, which stated that I "assumed" you were NWA. Are you NWA? Is the reason for the disclaimer because your not exactly proud of what is happening there?

 

[Mugs]

My airline probably has the same pilot union as yours. The difference being that the management at my airline has not successfully turned the work groups on each other as NWA management has successfully done. The airline that I work for still has a "company spirit" among its employees (read labor vs. management). The pilots at my airline know that they hold the trump card when it comes to any labor dispute among any of the work groups. They support these other work groups because they realize that it is just a matter of time before we are butting heads with management and we would like to think that they would support us if "replacement pilots" were being trained to take our jobs.

P.S: NWA pilots, have fun flying those "highly maintained aircraft" after every flunky out there with an A&P works on your planes.

What goes around comes around. Nuff Said

Let me guess where you hang out and sing kumbaya. Midwest Airlines? Where you "probably" have the same union as NWA?

 

[castle bravo]

The airline that I work for still has a "company spirit" among its employees (read labor vs. management). The pilots at my airline know that they hold the trump card when it comes to any labor dispute among any of the work groups.



And just what company might this be, Willow?

 

[michael707767]

Why are'nt the NWA pilots going to be just as big SCABS, as an EAL pilot? WHAT GIVES...

What gives? ALPA just welcomed back the CAL scabs with open arms. What kind of message do you think that sent? I would not scab for personal reasons, but I no longer fear my union in making that decision.

 

[twobits]

ok, back to the bankruptcy....... check out Delta's cash position and tell me how many lawsuits Delta execs would encounter if they filed chapter 11. This just shows that everybody believes what they read. Delta wants the gov't to think that they will go out of business if they do not get pension reform. They are not leaving any doubts about the matter and I am sure they do not object to the frequent stories about ch.11. If they really were in need, ASA and Comair would have been sold for a song (haha). of course, that could be in the works.


What is worse, losing a modest amount of money on the books while maintaining your cash position, or making a ton of money and having employee groups and suppliers wanting more of it ????

 

[320AV8R]

I dont "know" because of your previous disclaimer, which stated that I "assumed" you were NWA.

You "assumed" correctly.

Is the reason for the disclaimer because your not exactly proud of what is happening there?

No, it was because it wasn't relevant to the conversation.

320AV8R

 

[General Lee]

ok, back to the bankruptcy....... check out Delta's cash position and tell me how many lawsuits Delta execs would encounter if they filed chapter 11. This just shows that everybody believes what they read. Delta wants the gov't to think that they will go out of business if they do not get pension reform. They are not leaving any doubts about the matter and I am sure they do not object to the frequent stories about ch.11. If they really were in need, ASA and Comair would have been sold for a song (haha). of course, that could be in the works.


What is worse, losing a modest amount of money on the books while maintaining your cash position, or making a ton of money and having employee groups and suppliers wanting more of it ????

If your obligations exceed your current cash on hand, it is better to go into bankruptcy with some cash so you can try to pay the lawyers and try to come out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetflyer]

I don't know:
Can Delta sell/IPO Comair and ASA after they've filed for CHAPTER 11, or does it have to be done first??

Why are they delaying rasing cash from a sale/IPO of Comair or ASA, or another BOND ISSUANCE or STOCK ISSUANCE??

Maybe Delta's new plan is CH 11. Maybe their plans changed after the changes to bankruptcy laws, and with oil prices 55% higher than their genius forecast of $40/barrel. Their forecast was for $35/barrel for 2006. LET'S PRAY!


Jet

 

[twobits]

General,

true, but why would they keep so much cash on hand..... over 2 billion in cash and equivalents (short term). Why has Comair and ASA not been sold. Delta could spin off ASA and Comair to shareholders and the value to DAL investors would skyrocket. After the spinoff, Delta could declare ch.11 and not feel bad about it, except to the unsecured creditors. However, they really need to sell at least one of the two before they enter bankruptcy. I agree there is a big deficit in liabilities and assets..... but still do not understand why they are paying so much to hold onto excess cash if they can't afford it.

 

[jetflyer]

Why did Delta's stock tank to $2.12 today? What a move.

 

[michael707767]

Why are they delaying rasing cash from a sale/IPO of Comair or ASA, or another BOND ISSUANCE or STOCK ISSUANCE??

I don't know that they are trying to sell ASA and or CMR. I think they are, but who knows? Anyway, assuming they are going to sell one or both, I think they will absolutely delay it as long as possible. No matter how good or bad Delta's finances are (and I know they are bad) Delta is going to make it look as bad as possible until they get pension relief and/or some debt relief. Do you think creditors would be willing to negotiate if suddely Delta had another 500 mil in the bank from selling ASA?

 

[twobits]

things look bad for DAL. However, at least there will be no takeover attempts!! Unless somebody likes debt. I still don't think that a company would declare bankruptcy just to get around a new law. Kind of silly.

DAL is adding flights and increasing utilization of current airplanes. I am sure they will redesign the airport experience to make frontline employees more efficient. All of this increases revenues and spreads out the fixed costs of airplanes and the front office, etc...

I am sure that Delta pilots will be approached for more concessions before ch.11 and part of those concessions will involve 100 seat airplanes as well as 70 seat airplanes to DCI. DALPA should be careful but also prudent in doing their part in the survival and turnaround of Delta. This may mean giving more money back instead of conceding 100 seaters, but it is better than losing your job. One thing is for sure, NO prudent manager would decide to declare bankruptcy just because a new law was about to be inacted regarding bankruptcy duration. my .02.

 

[satpak77]

Why did Delta's stock tank to $2.12 today? What a move.

who knows but it tanked on 3 times its normal volume....indicating "smart money" dumping shares, to create that much volume

this wasn't Aunt Sally on E-Trade selling her 500 shares

 

[michael707767]

I am sure that Delta pilots will be approached for more concessions before ch.11 and part of those concessions will involve 100 seat airplanes as well as 70 seat airplanes to DCI. DALPA should be careful but also prudent in doing their part in the survival and turnaround of Delta. This may mean giving more money back instead of conceding 100 seaters, but it is better than losing your job.

I agree with him. I think they will ask for 100 seat scope. And I think we would be fools to give it to em. I'd rather take another big pay cut and keep the jobs. We give away the 100 seaters and we are done. The pilot group would shrink to about 3000 pilots.

 

[General Lee]

things look bad for DAL. However, at least there will be no takeover attempts!! Unless somebody likes debt. I still don't think that a company would declare bankruptcy just to get around a new law. Kind of silly.

DAL is adding flights and increasing utilization of current airplanes. I am sure they will redesign the airport experience to make frontline employees more efficient. All of this increases revenues and spreads out the fixed costs of airplanes and the front office, etc...

I am sure that Delta pilots will be approached for more concessions before ch.11 and part of those concessions will involve 100 seat airplanes as well as 70 seat airplanes to DCI. DALPA should be careful but also prudent in doing their part in the survival and turnaround of Delta. This may mean giving more money back instead of conceding 100 seaters, but it is better than losing your job. One thing is for sure, NO prudent manager would decide to declare bankruptcy just because a new law was about to be inacted regarding bankruptcy duration. my .02.

Debt would be restuructured. Also pensions would be trimmed back and DL would look better for a takeover or a merge. Labor costs reduced too. As far as 100 seaters, Grinstein said our smallest plane would be 737-700s----what is the seat capacity with that? apparently Boeing and GE want to work with us, but after we get cleaned up. A 100 seater with a 737-700 also there doesn't make much sense. I see more 70 seaters to fill the gap.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

Debt would be gone in Chap 11, or a lot of it.

How about explaining the process in which the debt gets "gone."

 

[General Lee]

How about explaining the process in which the debt gets "gone."

Sorry, I am not as experienced with the Chap 11 process as you and your United buddies are (32 months worth of experience). What I meant is that they can renegotiate some of the debt, or try to pay 10 cents on the dollar etc. and renegotiate some of the leases for less money per month. You also need to tone down your atttitude towards me. I didn't go to Wharton or Yale Law, and I admit it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

For someone who appears to knows so little and who's posts are so superficial, you certainly are arrogant. I'd quit on the 32 month thing if I were you, it might make you look foolish later.

Kind of like when I recommended you quit on the "look at the cost savings with the new Delta pilot contract" you repeated over, and over, and over, and over, and over. "Just wait for the savings to kick in" - over and over.

You called me "Nostradamus" for pointing out to you several months ago the situation that Delta is in now. That was no great stretch on my part, it was as obvious as can be.

I wish the best for Delta and you - just try to back up what you say. "Debt goes away in Ch11, or a lot of it" - c'mon guy. That's as superficial as it gets. You ought to do some serious research on the debt situation Delta is in right now and apply that study to an in-depth look at what could happen in Ch11.