Washington Post: DL & NWA to file by Sept

[Workin'Stiff]

That is completely wrong. The people that will perform the struck work genius will be sporting shiny new NWA UNIFORMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mechanics and Flight Attendants. And at the top of their pay stub it will say Northwest Airlines Payroll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better do some reading regarding the company you are employed with.

Somehow, the meaning was lost. I am in agreement with you in the fact that the replacement 1000 mechanics are scabs. That plain and clear. The pilots, however, cannot and should not be called scabs. Their union is not performing struck labor.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

When NWA pilots strike, ala 98, a sympathy strike from mech's and FA's is automatically assumed by ALPA. Doesnt seem to work the other way around.

Granted in '98 the mechanics were IAM and the flight attendats were AFA if I'm not mistaken. All AFL-CIO... Times have changed now....

 

[320AV8R]

That is completely wrong. The people that will perform the struck work genius will be sporting shiny new NWA UNIFORMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mechanics and Flight Attendants. And at the top of their pay stub it will say Northwest Airlines Payroll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better do some reading regarding the company you are employed with.

Thanks for the genius comment. I'm flattered.

You are arguing with yourself. The "replacement" mechanics will be FIXING aircraft that the STRIKING mechanics used to fix, but now don't.........BECAUSE THEY ARE......ON STRIKE !!!! Whether they have NWA uniforms on, or pajamas is irrelevant. They will be doing NWA work that is being struck.

The pilots fly airpanes. If they keep flying.......and no other NWA pilots are on strike..........they aren't doing struck work......and.....that's right.....they aren't scabs after all !!!

See how easy it is ?

Thanks for assuming I work for Big Red....that may or may not be true.

320Av8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Somehow, the meaning was lost. I am in agreement with you in the fact that the replacement 1000 mechanics are scabs. That plain and clear. The pilots, however, cannot and should not be called scabs. Their union is not performing struck labor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt it in a work groups best interest to support other large work groups within the company? Next time your group might be in the ringer with management and need the support?

 

[320AV8R]

When NWA pilots strike, ala 98, a sympathy strike from mech's and FA's is automatically assumed by ALPA. Doesnt seem to work the other way around.

Where do you come up with this BS ?

In 1998, ALPA told the other unions to continue working, and NOT HONOR their strike.

320AV8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

The "replacement" mechanics will be FIXING aircraft that the STRIKING mechanics used to fix, but now don't.........BECAUSE THEY ARE......ON STRIKE !!!! Whether they have NWA uniforms on, or pajamas is irrelevant. They will be doing NWA work that is being struck.

If Joe's DC9 muffler shop gets an order to fix a NWA DC9, and "fred gets assigned that task from joe, and knows he will get fired from joe if he doesnt do it, that is not a scab.

Now if Fred quits joes DC9 muffler shop and fills out a NWA aplication and gets his shiny new NWA uniform and then goes and fixes NWA's DC9, that is a scab.

See how easy that is? It's not hard.

 

[320AV8R]

If Joe's DC9 muffler shop gets an order to fix a NWA DC9, and "fred gets assigned that task from joe, and knows he will get fired from joe if he doesnt do it, that is not a scab.

True. Unless there are NWA mechanics on strike at the time, and he performs their work.

Now if Fred quits joes DC9 muffler shop and fills out a NWA aplication and gets his shiny new NWA uniform and then goes and fixes NWA's DC9, that is a scab.

Also true. As long as the NWA mechanics are on strike, and he does their work. That is what I have said in my previous posts.

See how easy that is? It's not hard.

I'm glad you understand the difference.
320AV8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

True. Unless there are NWA mechanics on strike at the time, and he performs their work.


Also true. As long as the NWA mechanics are on strike, and he does their work. That is what I have said in my previous posts.


I'm glad you understand the difference.
320AV8R

LOL,,,so what you are saying is that any third party contract mechanic who works on a struck NWA plane is supposed to inform his/her boss that they basically are resigning from their employment (non union shop), but it IS
ok for pilots of the same colors (NWA) of the striking mechanics to go merily about their business helping management out and breaking the backs of their fellow company employees,,,sad,,,very sad.

 

[General Lee]

Not only mechanics, but stews too. Yeeesh.

NWA Flight Want Replacements Plan Examined
Tuesday August 2, 5:53 pm ET NWA Flight Attendants Ask FAA to Examine Plan for Replacements



MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Flight attendants at Northwest Airlines Corp. asked the Federal Aviation Administration to investigate the airline's plans to replace them if they follow mechanics into a strike later this month.

In a petition filed with the FAA on Tuesday, the flight attendants said they were concerned that safety and security information was being released to non-employees -- namely, flight attendant trainees who have not yet been hired. That "should raise concerns for the FAA and the flying public in a post-9/11 world," said Peter Fiske, a spokesman for the Professional Flight Attendants Association.

He declined to release a copy of the request sent to the FAA.

Mediated talks between Northwest and its mechanics resumed on Tuesday in Washington. The mechanics will be free to strike on Aug. 20. The airline has vowed to keep flying.

Neither flight attendants nor pilots have said whether they will keep working if mechanics strike. Northwest has been training replacement flight attendants and mechanics in case of a strike, and has vowed to keep flying.

"If a union chooses to strike the carrier or engage in job actions with the intent of causing disruption at some point in the future, Northwest must be prepared to protect its operations," the company said in a statement. "Accordingly, Northwest has developed contingency plans including expanding vendor relationships and, in some cases, augmenting staff."

Northwest chief executive Doug Steenland has said that leaders of the flight attendants union acknowledged there's nothing in their contract that allows them to conduct a sympathy strike.

On Tuesday, Fiske said the union's contract isn't clear on that point -- but he said federal labor law does allow a sympathy strike. He said that there's still time for flight attendants to conduct a strike vote before Aug. 20, and that a vote could be held after that date as well.

Besides asking the FAA to look into the training of flight attendants, the PFAA has asked a federal judge to issue a temporary restraining order stopping the training.

Also Tuesday, the Star Tribune reported that Northwest plans to use 1,000 replacement mechanics in the event of a strike, according to a contingency plan obtained by the newspaper.

It said the replacement mechanics would be used in the Twin Cities, Detroit and Memphis for daily work required to keep the fleet running. The memo, dated in late July, said the goal is to "operate at 100 percent of scheduled service" if the mechanics union goes on strike.

"We are not cutting corners. This is business as usual," the memo said.

Northwest officials told the newspaper it was "unfortunate" that it had obtained a copy of the strike operations plan.

Shares in Eagan-based Northwest dropped 13 cents to close at $4.78 on the Nasdaq Stock Market, down from a high for the year of $11.83.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[320AV8R]

LOL,,,so what you are saying is that any third party contract mechanic who works on a struck NWA plane is supposed to inform his/her boss that they basically are resigning from their employment (non union shop), but it IS
ok for pilots of the same colors (NWA) of the striking mechanics to go merily about their business helping management out and breaking the backs of their fellow company employees,,,sad,,,very sad.

That's not what I said.

Re-read the post, because you have a comprehension problem.

You obviuosly have never been in anything that remotely resembles a union and have no idea what you're talking about.

320AV8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

You obviuosly have never been in anything that remotely resembles a union

My airline probably has the same pilot union as yours. The difference being that the management at my airline has not successfully turned the work groups on each other as NWA management has successfully done. The airline that I work for still has a "company spirit" among its employees (read labor vs. management). The pilots at my airline know that they hold the trump card when it comes to any labor dispute among any of the work groups. They support these other work groups because they realize that it is just a matter of time before we are butting heads with management and we would like to think that they would support us if "replacement pilots" were being trained to take our jobs.

P.S: NWA pilots, have fun flying those "highly maintained aircraft" after every flunky out there with an A&P works on your planes.

What goes around comes around. Nuff Said

 

[320AV8R]

My airline probably has the same pilot union as yours.

Are you sure ? Do you not know ? Too bad you don't know the way unions operate.

P.S: NWA pilots, have fun flying those "highly maintained aircraft" after every flunky out there with an A&P works on your planes.

Most of the replacement mechanics are furloughed NWA mechanics, most with 8-10 years experience. Of course AMFA may reach a settlement, who knows.

Either way, I bet you'd be the first in line if that was the only way to commute home.

320AV8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Are you sure ? Do you not know ?

I dont "know" because of your previous disclaimer, which stated that I "assumed" you were NWA. Are you NWA? Is the reason for the disclaimer because your not exactly proud of what is happening there?

 

[Mugs]

My airline probably has the same pilot union as yours. The difference being that the management at my airline has not successfully turned the work groups on each other as NWA management has successfully done. The airline that I work for still has a "company spirit" among its employees (read labor vs. management). The pilots at my airline know that they hold the trump card when it comes to any labor dispute among any of the work groups. They support these other work groups because they realize that it is just a matter of time before we are butting heads with management and we would like to think that they would support us if "replacement pilots" were being trained to take our jobs.

P.S: NWA pilots, have fun flying those "highly maintained aircraft" after every flunky out there with an A&P works on your planes.

What goes around comes around. Nuff Said

Let me guess where you hang out and sing kumbaya. Midwest Airlines? Where you "probably" have the same union as NWA?

 

[castle bravo]

The airline that I work for still has a "company spirit" among its employees (read labor vs. management). The pilots at my airline know that they hold the trump card when it comes to any labor dispute among any of the work groups.



And just what company might this be, Willow?

 

[michael707767]

Why are'nt the NWA pilots going to be just as big SCABS, as an EAL pilot? WHAT GIVES...

What gives? ALPA just welcomed back the CAL scabs with open arms. What kind of message do you think that sent? I would not scab for personal reasons, but I no longer fear my union in making that decision.

 

[twobits]

ok, back to the bankruptcy....... check out Delta's cash position and tell me how many lawsuits Delta execs would encounter if they filed chapter 11. This just shows that everybody believes what they read. Delta wants the gov't to think that they will go out of business if they do not get pension reform. They are not leaving any doubts about the matter and I am sure they do not object to the frequent stories about ch.11. If they really were in need, ASA and Comair would have been sold for a song (haha). of course, that could be in the works.


What is worse, losing a modest amount of money on the books while maintaining your cash position, or making a ton of money and having employee groups and suppliers wanting more of it ????

 

[320AV8R]

I dont "know" because of your previous disclaimer, which stated that I "assumed" you were NWA.

You "assumed" correctly.

Is the reason for the disclaimer because your not exactly proud of what is happening there?

No, it was because it wasn't relevant to the conversation.

320AV8R

 

[General Lee]

ok, back to the bankruptcy....... check out Delta's cash position and tell me how many lawsuits Delta execs would encounter if they filed chapter 11. This just shows that everybody believes what they read. Delta wants the gov't to think that they will go out of business if they do not get pension reform. They are not leaving any doubts about the matter and I am sure they do not object to the frequent stories about ch.11. If they really were in need, ASA and Comair would have been sold for a song (haha). of course, that could be in the works.


What is worse, losing a modest amount of money on the books while maintaining your cash position, or making a ton of money and having employee groups and suppliers wanting more of it ????

If your obligations exceed your current cash on hand, it is better to go into bankruptcy with some cash so you can try to pay the lawyers and try to come out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetflyer]

I don't know:
Can Delta sell/IPO Comair and ASA after they've filed for CHAPTER 11, or does it have to be done first??

Why are they delaying rasing cash from a sale/IPO of Comair or ASA, or another BOND ISSUANCE or STOCK ISSUANCE??

Maybe Delta's new plan is CH 11. Maybe their plans changed after the changes to bankruptcy laws, and with oil prices 55% higher than their genius forecast of $40/barrel. Their forecast was for $35/barrel for 2006. LET'S PRAY!


Jet

 

[twobits]

General,

true, but why would they keep so much cash on hand..... over 2 billion in cash and equivalents (short term). Why has Comair and ASA not been sold. Delta could spin off ASA and Comair to shareholders and the value to DAL investors would skyrocket. After the spinoff, Delta could declare ch.11 and not feel bad about it, except to the unsecured creditors. However, they really need to sell at least one of the two before they enter bankruptcy. I agree there is a big deficit in liabilities and assets..... but still do not understand why they are paying so much to hold onto excess cash if they can't afford it.

 

[jetflyer]

Why did Delta's stock tank to $2.12 today? What a move.

 

[michael707767]

Why are they delaying rasing cash from a sale/IPO of Comair or ASA, or another BOND ISSUANCE or STOCK ISSUANCE??

I don't know that they are trying to sell ASA and or CMR. I think they are, but who knows? Anyway, assuming they are going to sell one or both, I think they will absolutely delay it as long as possible. No matter how good or bad Delta's finances are (and I know they are bad) Delta is going to make it look as bad as possible until they get pension relief and/or some debt relief. Do you think creditors would be willing to negotiate if suddely Delta had another 500 mil in the bank from selling ASA?

 

[twobits]

things look bad for DAL. However, at least there will be no takeover attempts!! Unless somebody likes debt. I still don't think that a company would declare bankruptcy just to get around a new law. Kind of silly.

DAL is adding flights and increasing utilization of current airplanes. I am sure they will redesign the airport experience to make frontline employees more efficient. All of this increases revenues and spreads out the fixed costs of airplanes and the front office, etc...

I am sure that Delta pilots will be approached for more concessions before ch.11 and part of those concessions will involve 100 seat airplanes as well as 70 seat airplanes to DCI. DALPA should be careful but also prudent in doing their part in the survival and turnaround of Delta. This may mean giving more money back instead of conceding 100 seaters, but it is better than losing your job. One thing is for sure, NO prudent manager would decide to declare bankruptcy just because a new law was about to be inacted regarding bankruptcy duration. my .02.

 

[satpak77]

Why did Delta's stock tank to $2.12 today? What a move.

who knows but it tanked on 3 times its normal volume....indicating "smart money" dumping shares, to create that much volume

this wasn't Aunt Sally on E-Trade selling her 500 shares

 

[michael707767]

I am sure that Delta pilots will be approached for more concessions before ch.11 and part of those concessions will involve 100 seat airplanes as well as 70 seat airplanes to DCI. DALPA should be careful but also prudent in doing their part in the survival and turnaround of Delta. This may mean giving more money back instead of conceding 100 seaters, but it is better than losing your job.

I agree with him. I think they will ask for 100 seat scope. And I think we would be fools to give it to em. I'd rather take another big pay cut and keep the jobs. We give away the 100 seaters and we are done. The pilot group would shrink to about 3000 pilots.

 

[General Lee]

things look bad for DAL. However, at least there will be no takeover attempts!! Unless somebody likes debt. I still don't think that a company would declare bankruptcy just to get around a new law. Kind of silly.

DAL is adding flights and increasing utilization of current airplanes. I am sure they will redesign the airport experience to make frontline employees more efficient. All of this increases revenues and spreads out the fixed costs of airplanes and the front office, etc...

I am sure that Delta pilots will be approached for more concessions before ch.11 and part of those concessions will involve 100 seat airplanes as well as 70 seat airplanes to DCI. DALPA should be careful but also prudent in doing their part in the survival and turnaround of Delta. This may mean giving more money back instead of conceding 100 seaters, but it is better than losing your job. One thing is for sure, NO prudent manager would decide to declare bankruptcy just because a new law was about to be inacted regarding bankruptcy duration. my .02.

Debt would be restuructured. Also pensions would be trimmed back and DL would look better for a takeover or a merge. Labor costs reduced too. As far as 100 seaters, Grinstein said our smallest plane would be 737-700s----what is the seat capacity with that? apparently Boeing and GE want to work with us, but after we get cleaned up. A 100 seater with a 737-700 also there doesn't make much sense. I see more 70 seaters to fill the gap.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

Debt would be gone in Chap 11, or a lot of it.

How about explaining the process in which the debt gets "gone."

 

[General Lee]

How about explaining the process in which the debt gets "gone."

Sorry, I am not as experienced with the Chap 11 process as you and your United buddies are (32 months worth of experience). What I meant is that they can renegotiate some of the debt, or try to pay 10 cents on the dollar etc. and renegotiate some of the leases for less money per month. You also need to tone down your atttitude towards me. I didn't go to Wharton or Yale Law, and I admit it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

For someone who appears to knows so little and who's posts are so superficial, you certainly are arrogant. I'd quit on the 32 month thing if I were you, it might make you look foolish later.

Kind of like when I recommended you quit on the "look at the cost savings with the new Delta pilot contract" you repeated over, and over, and over, and over, and over. "Just wait for the savings to kick in" - over and over.

You called me "Nostradamus" for pointing out to you several months ago the situation that Delta is in now. That was no great stretch on my part, it was as obvious as can be.

I wish the best for Delta and you - just try to back up what you say. "Debt goes away in Ch11, or a lot of it" - c'mon guy. That's as superficial as it gets. You ought to do some serious research on the debt situation Delta is in right now and apply that study to an in-depth look at what could happen in Ch11.