Wall Street Jornal: NWA "reworks plan for merger"

Superpilot92

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MR DOH DTW319,

Were you hired before July of 2001? If so, OUR WORKRULES will save your butt. Why? We still have a No Furlough Clause (they can't just take away--we kept ours in BK) for anyone hired before and including TBKANE. If you were hired after July 2001, then you may be affected, and it is all because of YOUR Greenbook Merger Committee Chair---who most likely won't be affected. Any offer they give will be a plus, not a minus, because we are not in section 6 talks. Nope. But, they don't have to EXTEND the No furlough clause to people hired after TBKANE---and that is the key. The last offer had a lot of plusses, and this one may NOT have as many. As far as our managment renegging, I think your management is now on the warpath. As a standalone, we will not furlough, primarily because we ACTUALLY HAVE PLANES COMING ON THE PROPERTY, even as we lost a few. Actually, we will have a net GAIN. How about you guys? Where are those 787s again? Any other new planes? You are losing how many DC9s this year? (Scheduled) Care to share with us how your side will help OUR TOTAL operation? Oh yeah, it 3-4 years you may be getting some 787s.....


Bye Bye--General Lee


Oh great the old GL is back, it was nice while it lasted, oh well......:mad:
 

johnsonrod

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Why would he give any info to you being that you dont work for either carrier yet feel the need to come on here and continually post flames? Why do you come on here and act this way but go on to the frax threads and kiss everyones a$$?:confused:

I have both friends and family (uncle is a 764 PIC) who currently work for Delta. I don't have to work at either to have an opinion. Thanks for caring.
 

General Lee

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Oh great the old GL is back, it was nice while it lasted, oh well......:mad:

Hey, I still have a good attitude, but some things have to be cleared up. If I were you, I would be upset that an additional no furlough clause could be going away. I hope it doesn't, but not agreeing to the previous offer may have consequences. I am not making fun of your DC9 anymore, which is a good thing.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

jonjuan

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When the CEO and President of Delta cancel their first trip from Atlanta to China with the Governor and city delegates to pursue talks with Northwest, it is a good indicator that an announcement may be just around the corner. Stay tuned! With fuel over $100 dollars a barrel and Aloha shutting down passenger operations, the executives will have everything they need to sell to the regulators.

This merger will not happen. No way, no how.
 

DTW320

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MR DOH DTW319, DOH was never on the table....another FACT that even you know, yet ignore anyway. Why? Do you think displaying total ignorance makes you look cute?

Were you hired before July of 2001? If so, OUR WORKRULES will save your butt. Why? We still have a No Furlough Clause (they can't just take away--we kept ours in BK) for anyone hired before and including TBKANE. If you were hired after July 2001, then you may be affected, and it is all because of YOUR Greenbook Merger Committee ChairNope....wrong again....revisionist history brought on by spiked Koolaid again...as previously reported, it was taken OFF the table by Delta Airlines while the last "negotiation" (shhhhh....I know you think it was an "offer" but it was a negotiation)was still in progress.---who most likely won't be affected. Any offer they give will be a plus, not a minus, because we are not in section 6 talks--and if we do agree to a new PWA, then we can replace our current one, with the current work rules. We wouldn't accept a worse PWA. Nope. Really? Oil is easily twice what it was when you went BKBut, they don't have to EXTEND the No furlough clause to people hired after TBKANE---and that is the key. The last offer had a lot of plusses, and this one may NOT have as many.May? It won't. It won't because the airline economics have gone in the tank since this merger idea was first considered. That's why Dickie Anderson started backpedaling right out of the gate. Which is exactly why NWAALPA resisted financial carrots that wouldn't have lasted a month, apparently, to avoid a SLI that would have lasted forever. As far as our managment renegging, I think your management is now on the warpath. As a standalone, we will not furlough, primarily because we ACTUALLY HAVE PLANES COMING ON THE PROPERTY, even as we lost a few. Actually, we will have a net GAIN. How about you guys? Where are those 787s again? Any other new planes? You are losing how many DC9s this year? (Scheduled) Care to share with us how your side will help OUR TOTAL operation?I don't know....access to Asia? Ask Dick why HE pursued it in the first place. While your talking to him, ask why he canceled his travel plans this past weekend. K?Was it to rewire MD88's? Oh yeah, it 3-4 years you may be getting some 787s.....Really? 2011 or 2012 before we get the first one as the launch N. American customer? You wanna stand by that ASSertion?


Bye Bye--General Lee
Broken Record
 

FDJ2

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Backpedalling right out of the gate?

Fruitless quibbling over the SLI lasted longer than it should have, economics changed, so did the deal. The traditional form of merger negotiations wasn't going to cut it. We failed to lock in the contractual improvements in the narrow window of opportunity that was presented.

Had we TA'd the entire agreement and ratified it in a timely manner we would have locked in the rates and contractual improvements. Contractual improvements that would have created a need for additional pilots at NWA bases and on NWA aircraft.

Weeks ago, after negotiations once again failed to produce a mutually agreed upon SLI, I said we should get use to hearing "that was then, this is now." Because of the protracted SLI negotiations management was able to backpedal.

I find it highly unlikely that we will see the same transaction framework agreement again. JMHO
 
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IronCityBlue

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It's pretty funny to see such a big deal out of a couple big wigs canceling their inaugural service trips. That proves everything!
 

Redmeat

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Backpedalling right out of the gate?

Fruitless quibbling over the SLI lasted longer than it should have, economics changed, so did the deal. The traditional form of merger negotiations wasn't going to cut it. We failed to lock in the contractual improvements in the narrow window of opportunity that was presented.

Had we TA'd the entire agreement and ratified it in a timely manner we would have locked in the rates and contractual improvements. Contractual improvements that would have created a need for additional pilots at NWA bases and on NWA aircraft.

Weeks ago, after negotiations once again failed to produce a mutually agreed upon SLI, I said we should get use to hearing "that was then, this is now." Because of the protracted SLI negotiations management was able to backpedal.

I find it highly unlikely that we will see the same transaction framework agreement again. JMHO

Unfortunately everything you have posted was ALL probably part of the plan.

Are we forgetting who we are dealing with here?

RA an DS now get the merger without the payoff and the bennies and get to look like they were trying to be magnanimous to boot.

*Sighhhhhh*...pilots...the dumbest 'smart' people in big business.
 

General Lee

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I guess Ray Neidl was also fooled......

Unfortunately everything you have posted was ALL probably part of the plan.

Are we forgetting who we are dealing with here?

RA an DS now get the merger without the payoff and the bennies and get to look like they were trying to be magnanimous to boot.

*Sighhhhhh*...pilots...the dumbest 'smart' people in big business.

"Basically, unless Delta management has a change a heart, I don't think they're going to do anything without the support of their pilots," said Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl.

"It shows that people don't want it to die and they'll keep trying things, but I don't think it puts us any closer."


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Redmeat

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"Basically, unless Delta management has a change a heart, I don't think they're going to do anything without the support of their pilots," said Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl.

"It shows that people don't want it to die and they'll keep trying things, but I don't think it puts us any closer."


Bye Bye--General Lee

Keep on posting that response General.

What is that?... the third or fourth time your retort consisted of those exact quotes?

It seems to be working for you.

:rolleyes:
 

tomgoodman

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Inmates run the asylum

I guess Ray Neidl was also fooled......

General,

That's quite possible. The way this industry has been going, anyone can be fooled, especially the experts. Absurdities have become commonplace, and the laws of financial common sense have been repealed. :nuts:
 

General Lee

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Keep on posting that response General.

What is that?... the third or fourth time your retort consisted of those exact quotes?

It seems to be working for you.

:rolleyes:

I am not stating it for your approval. Far from that. I am posting it because it is interesting to see a fairly knowledgeable analyst would actually print something like that. He seems to be right in there with the CEOs, talking with them during their conference calls. I think it is more interesting than silly. But, you know otherwise. You keep spouting off your "I know what will happen and it will rain blood...." krap. I still don't think local politicians will go along with anything that could affect their constituents, and that may be key. We'll see jacka$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

~~~^~~~

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I wonder if Caylon Securities took short positions at $17 a share. Since the recent peak, Ray Neidl has been very pessimistic on the stock and the market has moved accordingly.

Must be nice to take a position, run your mouth off to the press, watch the sheep run over the cliff, and cash in. Unless NWA and DAL are headed right back into bankruptcy the shares are over sold at their current prices.
 

Redmeat

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I am not stating it for your approval. Far from that. I am posting it because it is interesting to see a fairly knowledgeable analyst would actually print something like that. He seems to be right in there with the CEOs, talking with them during their conference calls. I think it is more interesting than silly. But, you know otherwise. You keep spouting off your "I know what will happen and it will rain blood...." krap. I still don't think local politicians will go along with anything that could affect their constituents, and that may be key. We'll see jacka$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee

"I know what will happen". Aren't you the King of that on this board Maestro?

"It will rain blood". No It won't "rain blood" it will eventually turn out to be a very profitable entity. You should rejoice in the fact the combined carrier will be called Delta.

With this economy and the possibility of it (US) becoming much worse... the" constituents" will PUSH this thru not refuse it.

"we'll see jackass"...well I'm willing to bet I've been called that name a lot fewer times on this board than you have General.
 

~~~^~~~

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General:

Even I'm coming around to agree with the NWA pilots that this merger is maybe coming down whether we like it or not.

If you can hold an upgrade, you had better do it now.

There is a reason management took furough protection off the table in the revised deal.
 
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rudder

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Considering that this discourse started weeks ago with a target of end of Feb, today seems like the delayed constructive deadline to announce the deal and then to get it through the DOJ vetting process while the current DOJ still has jurisdiction.

Still checking Reuters for the big announcement.................
 

JohnDoe

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There is a reason management took furough protection off the table in the revised deal.



Exactly. Management has no plans to protect anybody's job or seniority. Just like the "we won't close any hubs" was to appease the political types, the "we will protect your seniority" was eye-candy for the employees to get them to play nice.

Once the deal happens, the excuses for the "gutting" will begin. "We didn't envision.....(insert excuse here)........" blah blah blah
 

General Lee

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General:

Even I'm coming around to agree with the NWA pilots that this merger is maybe coming down whether we like it or not.

If you can hold an upgrade, you had better do it now.

There is a reason management took furough protection off the table in the revised deal.

I am on a 9 month seat lock for INTL, and it isn't up until this Summer. No need to worry though, I am enjoying what I am doing now. Will this merger come to fruition without our consent? Probably. Would they rather have us come to a deal? You bet. Will Dalpa make some demands that may or may not be accepted at management? Sure. We will see how forceful they are. I would like to know what the exact details are on the "revised" deal. PM me if you can. If we do have to arbitrate the SLI, I just don't see DOH for NWA guys, and with our work rules being thrown onto NWA, there would be an immediate need for 300-400 additional pilots there. There is some cushion room, along with some orders still coming our way. I don't see mass parkings of DC9s, or those E175s would be parked too. This isn't BK, and they can't just change what NWALPA currently has. They can offer a deal, and see if we take it, or keep us with seperate contracts (with the current scope clauses etc) and in a few years mix it together. I think Mangement would rather have a deal that allows no fences, and we won't take it without a good deal. If they want to force it on us, we still have our current contract, which has some protections. It will be interesting. They can force a merger, but not force a new contract on us.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

General Lee

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Exactly. Management has no plans to protect anybody's job or seniority. Just like the "we won't close any hubs" was to appease the political types, the "we will protect your seniority" was eye-candy for the employees to get them to play nice.

Once the deal happens, the excuses for the "gutting" will begin. "We didn't envision.....(insert excuse here)........" blah blah blah

Sorry, but they can't do anything that isn't in the contract. We have a no furlough clause for guys hired before and at TBKANE (July 2001) that is still in effect. It states no furloughing for economic reasons, including high fuel. We also have the right to vote down any codesharing that we don't like, which could be used to replace some domestic flying for cheap. You can't just force a new contract down our throats without a BK judge there, and they don't want to go down that route again. A new contract would have to be agreed upon, and I don't think either side will AGREE to anything that is harmful. The new deal may not be "as good" as the last offer, but we don't have to take it. They could try to merge us as seperate entities, and we would keep seperate contracts like USAir East and West. We still would have the same protections (like NWA's E175 restrictions if they park extra DC9s). We won't agree to it, and they cannot force a new contract on us. We will just have to see what the new offer is, and see if we can add to it if we can. Or, we say no.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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