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Vote NO on ASA PBS

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Nice site but from going to a road show and asking questions about my concerns the positives outweigh the negative of this LOA.

From my perspective PBS is coming to ASA either now or in the next contract. I would rather vote it in now and work with the system over the next several months outside of negotiations. During this time we voice our concerns about PBS to the union reps so they can fix the "loopholes" and improve our PBS system during open book. If we wait and get PBS during contract negotiations we will be stuck w/ whatever comes out for many years w/o any hopes of getting anything changed.
 
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atlcrjdriver said:
Nice site but from going to a road show and asking questions about my concerns the positives outweigh the negative of this LOA.

From my perspective PBS is coming to ASA either now or in the next contract. I would rather vote it in now and work with the system over the next several months outside of negotiations. During this time we voice our concerns about PBS to the union reps so they can fix the "loopholes" and improve our PBS system during open book. If we wait and get PBS during contract negotiations we will be stuck w/ whatever comes out for many years w/o any hopes of getting anything changed.
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Have to agree with this completely. Number 1 it allows us the ability and time to correct it in the next contract. Number 2, every bit of bargaining power is gone in the next contract, spent getting back to this if this doesn't pass now.
 
Alpa seems intent on getting us to vote pbs in no matter what the cost is to the pilot group. There are way too many loopholes to warrent a yes vote in my opinion. Why is alpa so intent on us passing pbs at this point in time? Its not like there is any new flying out there for us to pick up so we can cut costs again to be competitive. If Alpa would listen to the pilot group and try to close these loopholes that are the concern of many in the pilot group then i would have no problem supporting pbs. It just seems like alpa is trying to jam this down our throats. Vote No
 
rockit85 said:
Alpa seems intent on getting us to vote pbs in no matter what the cost is to the pilot group. There are way too many loopholes to warrent a yes vote in my opinion. Why is alpa so intent on us passing pbs at this point in time? Its not like there is any new flying out there for us to pick up so we can cut costs again to be competitive. If Alpa would listen to the pilot group and try to close these loopholes that are the concern of many in the pilot group then i would have no problem supporting pbs. It just seems like alpa is trying to jam this down our throats. Vote No
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Sure, vote no and get it rammed down our throats in the next negotiations with probably worse language than this TA, and no opportunity to address issues until the contract following that one. Great plan!
 
We are not in a strong position to negotiate anything at this time. We are losing aircraft every other month. It's in our best interest to play a little ball with management right now. We can demand more later.
 
I like the deal of getting it onboard NOW and then improving the agreement when we open up the contract later. If it's voted down now, we won't get as good an agreement as this LOA, and the one we will get from management will really piss you off! Vote no if you wish, but putting your anti-PBS web site as a home page on the company computers in the crew lounge is uncalled for. Your actions reflect on the rest of your brother pilots and I for one resent your actions.

Hoser
ROLL TIDE!
 
The site would be a lot more credible if somebody signed their name to it.

However, a little bit of digging gave me the name person who made this. For somebody who wanted to stay anonymous, they didn't do a good job of hiding their identity.
 
Yes Vote

I'll be voting yes to PBS. I can't stand the current method of line bidding. I absolutely hate integration. Even as a senior pilot if you need certain days of throughout the month (i.e. 3rd, 8th, 19th, etc.) there are often times when none of the lines match my criteria. No thanks. I'd rather bid for trips.
 
Bid Eligibility...
LOA 11-22 13.D.1.a
What I don’t like here is the change from current book that says if a pilot is anticipated to be available for more than half the month, (s)he’s eligible to bid for that month. Not that the union has been forcing the company to enforce that, but it should remain that way for the bidding purpose. I don’t like that you have to be qualified as of the close of the bid to be able to bid. I know the company’s argument is that the system can’t assign partial time, but it can....that’s what it does with vacation. If for some reason, someone doesn’t complete on time, then their trip drops to open time and will either get picked up or they can use a reserve.
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Quoted from the website you created...

This is how it works currently. If you aren't done with IOE by the 14th, you cannot bid for the following month. That isn't a change.
 
I'm on the "Vote Yes" band wagon. In my opinion, it's better to vote it in now, and tweek it sooner, than it is to vote no and end up with a worse system for longer. At least now we have a decent building block to work with, as opposed to a later version that I'm sure won't be this nice. All in all, it doesn't appear bad at all, from what I've learned via the road shows.
 
ASA_Aviator said:
Quoted from the website you created...

This is how it works currently. If you aren't done with IOE by the 14th, you cannot bid for the following month. That isn't a change.
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I didn't build the web page. But I have a good idea who did. My opinion is we need PBS to stay competitive, yes. But ALPA needs to fix some clauses now, because we all know how the grievance process works at ASA.
 
atlcrjdriver said:
Nice site but from going to a road show and asking questions about my concerns the positives outweigh the negative of this LOA.

From my perspective PBS is coming to ASA either now or in the next contract. I would rather vote it in now and work with the system over the next several months outside of negotiations. During this time we voice our concerns about PBS to the union reps so they can fix the "loopholes" and improve our PBS system during open book. If we wait and get PBS during contract negotiations we will be stuck w/ whatever comes out for many years w/o any hopes of getting anything changed.
Click to expand...


BAM!

Your little web site is a waste of time. Count me for yes, for all the above reasons.
 
JumpersAway said:
I'm on the "Vote Yes" band wagon. In my opinion, it's better to vote it in now, and tweek it sooner, than it is to vote no and end up with a worse system for longer. At least now we have a decent building block to work with, as opposed to a later version that I'm sure won't be this nice. All in all, it doesn't appear bad at all, from what I've learned via the road shows.
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I agree, another yes vote here.
 
I'm voting yes for all above yes reasons. We also get back 36 day of bidding to work or be off.
 
I'm furloughed and am supportive of PBS. It looks like it's good for ASA, which is what's good for getting me back to work.
 
sunlitpath said:
We are not in a strong position to negotiate anything at this time. We are losing aircraft every other month. It's in our best interest to play a little ball with management right now. We can demand more later.
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Don't get your hopes about your demands being met. Plus, that is just the dumbest sounding thing, "we demand......." Just sounds desperate.

That being said, you'll like PBS. Lots of friends like it.
 
Whoever posted that absolute drile website has no idea of how this works, or what would happen if this were voted down. This LOA would be dropped, and PBS would come back in the next section 6, and we will get MUCH LESS than what is offered in this LOA. There will be no demanding of anything. So, to review....we will have the PBS, and it will not be the Flightline with the other added incentives we would get now, like improved open time and swapping/dropping of portions of trips.
 
I'm voting yes as well for all the above reasons. Those who think we can get better in section 6 need to seriously consider the economic environment and how the mediator will perceive all of this. We are the only DCI carrier without PBS and this LOA has work rules that are in many ways better than what any of these carriers are working with. In some ways it is better than what Delta mainline uses. If we vote this down, the mediator is going to perceive us as being unreasonable and will likely side with the company when they try to force the system Skywest uses down our throats. Vote Yes now and tweak it as needed in section 6.
 
centralpilot said:
I'm voting yes as well for all the above reasons. Those who think we can get better in section 6 need to seriously consider the economic environment and how the mediator will perceive all of this. We are the only DCI carrier without PBS and this LOA has work rules that are in many ways better than what any of these carriers are working with. In some ways it is better than what Delta mainline uses. If we vote this down, the mediator is going to perceive us as being unreasonable and will likely side with the company when they try to force the system Skywest uses down our throats. Vote Yes now and tweak it as needed in section 6.
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Although it would take five years for the company to implement. We will surely be in negotiations that long. Still leaning yes though.
 
This website is so full of inaccuracies that I'm starting to think Brasilia Pup didn't bother to go to a road show or even read the LoA. Also, I question his credentials because I know all the ALPA reps and grievance chairman for the last 13 years and this clown is not one of them.

I wonder what his motive is though. Most people that I talk to seem to be coming around to FlightLine's system. Could it be that Brasilia Pup did, in fact, design his own PBS system about 10 years ago, tried to sell it to ASA and was denied? Could there be some animosity there? Hmmmm....
 
We have pbs at 9e and here are somethings i can tell you
If the pairings are crap - your schedule will be crap
Highspeeds will be mixed in with your normal lines if there are enough of them to do that.
Some months our average days of for all line holders will be 15-16, some months half way down the list will get minimum days off with very unproductive schedules.
you have no idea what you will get until the schedule is awarded
Pref bid is GREAT for senior people but absolutely terrible for junior people.
If you are a junior person it doesnt matter what you put, and I am not exagerating.
Just remember, if it saves ASA money and allows you to be more competitive than so be it, but i would get WHATEVER YOU CAN in return for allowing the company to do this.
Good luck
 
There is no such thing as a 'perfect' method of building schedules and work rules for pilots at any airline. The very term 'perfect' is simply too subjective. To expect that any agreement with the airline would be 'perfect' for all parties involved is evidence of poor critical thinking skills.

Is this tentative agreement 'perfect' for the pilots at ASA? Clearly, no. Is it in the best interests of the pilot group, and the company, for the future? Given what I know now, I believe that it is. I've yet to see a reason to vote against this TA that carries more weight than all of the reasons to vote for this TA.

My vote is yes.
 
i fly boxes said:
We have pbs at 9e and here are somethings i can tell you
If the pairings are crap - your schedule will be crap
Highspeeds will be mixed in with your normal lines if there are enough of them to do that.
Some months our average days of for all line holders will be 15-16, some months half way down the list will get minimum days off with very unproductive schedules.
you have no idea what you will get until the schedule is awarded
Pref bid is GREAT for senior people but absolutely terrible for junior people.
If you are a junior person it doesnt matter what you put, and I am not exagerating.
Just remember, if it saves ASA money and allows you to be more competitive than so be it, but i would get WHATEVER YOU CAN in return for allowing the company to do this.
Good luck
Click to expand...

We are not at 9e and we will not have the system that you have. Did your union have ANY say on what rules will be put in place with your PBS? No? Then don't assume because it is bad there it is bad for us.
 
SLUF4 said:
I'm still on the fence
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I would say to go to a roadshow. Arrive at a conclusion on your own, but I'd say to definately inform yourself of all avenues. Go to a roadshow, and if you don't feel it's right, then vote "no". If you go and like it, then so be it. However, I will simply say that I'd be leary of information gained soley on heresay and conjecture- especially from pilots on a message board.

Frankly, it isn't perfect. However, it's a good start to a better picture than we'll have without it, in my opinion. In regard to contractual lanuage- trying to close every loop hole in every contract is going to be akin to plugging the holes in the titanic. However, you can take a look at our current management and their working history with the pilot group, as opposed to the old management and their old ways for refrence.
 
I was very much against the idea of PBS. However, I agree with many of the previous posts. PBS is coming to ASA eventually (like it or not). Based on the information that I have seen, I plan on voting yes. I do not believe that we will have the same opportunity during the next round of contract negotiations that we have now.
 

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