Vote NO on ASA PBS

[centralpilot]

I'm voting yes as well for all the above reasons. Those who think we can get better in section 6 need to seriously consider the economic environment and how the mediator will perceive all of this. We are the only DCI carrier without PBS and this LOA has work rules that are in many ways better than what any of these carriers are working with. In some ways it is better than what Delta mainline uses. If we vote this down, the mediator is going to perceive us as being unreasonable and will likely side with the company when they try to force the system Skywest uses down our throats. Vote Yes now and tweak it as needed in section 6.

 

[bigshooter107]

I'm voting yes as well for all the above reasons. Those who think we can get better in section 6 need to seriously consider the economic environment and how the mediator will perceive all of this. We are the only DCI carrier without PBS and this LOA has work rules that are in many ways better than what any of these carriers are working with. In some ways it is better than what Delta mainline uses. If we vote this down, the mediator is going to perceive us as being unreasonable and will likely side with the company when they try to force the system Skywest uses down our throats. Vote Yes now and tweak it as needed in section 6.

Although it would take five years for the company to implement. We will surely be in negotiations that long. Still leaning yes though.

 

[WWEfan]

This website is so full of inaccuracies that I'm starting to think Brasilia Pup didn't bother to go to a road show or even read the LoA. Also, I question his credentials because I know all the ALPA reps and grievance chairman for the last 13 years and this clown is not one of them.

I wonder what his motive is though. Most people that I talk to seem to be coming around to FlightLine's system. Could it be that Brasilia Pup did, in fact, design his own PBS system about 10 years ago, tried to sell it to ASA and was denied? Could there be some animosity there? Hmmmm....

 

[Creeker]

it's yes for me

 

[i fly boxes]

We have pbs at 9e and here are somethings i can tell you
If the pairings are crap - your schedule will be crap
Highspeeds will be mixed in with your normal lines if there are enough of them to do that.
Some months our average days of for all line holders will be 15-16, some months half way down the list will get minimum days off with very unproductive schedules.
you have no idea what you will get until the schedule is awarded
Pref bid is GREAT for senior people but absolutely terrible for junior people.
If you are a junior person it doesnt matter what you put, and I am not exagerating.
Just remember, if it saves ASA money and allows you to be more competitive than so be it, but i would get WHATEVER YOU CAN in return for allowing the company to do this.
Good luck

 

[CFI2766]

There is no such thing as a 'perfect' method of building schedules and work rules for pilots at any airline. The very term 'perfect' is simply too subjective. To expect that any agreement with the airline would be 'perfect' for all parties involved is evidence of poor critical thinking skills.

Is this tentative agreement 'perfect' for the pilots at ASA? Clearly, no. Is it in the best interests of the pilot group, and the company, for the future? Given what I know now, I believe that it is. I've yet to see a reason to vote against this TA that carries more weight than all of the reasons to vote for this TA.

My vote is yes.

 

[OCP]

We have pbs at 9e and here are somethings i can tell you
If the pairings are crap - your schedule will be crap
Highspeeds will be mixed in with your normal lines if there are enough of them to do that.
Some months our average days of for all line holders will be 15-16, some months half way down the list will get minimum days off with very unproductive schedules.
you have no idea what you will get until the schedule is awarded
Pref bid is GREAT for senior people but absolutely terrible for junior people.
If you are a junior person it doesnt matter what you put, and I am not exagerating.
Just remember, if it saves ASA money and allows you to be more competitive than so be it, but i would get WHATEVER YOU CAN in return for allowing the company to do this.
Good luck

We are not at 9e and we will not have the system that you have. Did your union have ANY say on what rules will be put in place with your PBS? No? Then don't assume because it is bad there it is bad for us.

 

[SLUF4]

I'm still on the fence

 

[JumpersAway]

I'm still on the fence

I would say to go to a roadshow. Arrive at a conclusion on your own, but I'd say to definately inform yourself of all avenues. Go to a roadshow, and if you don't feel it's right, then vote "no". If you go and like it, then so be it. However, I will simply say that I'd be leary of information gained soley on heresay and conjecture- especially from pilots on a message board.

Frankly, it isn't perfect. However, it's a good start to a better picture than we'll have without it, in my opinion. In regard to contractual lanuage- trying to close every loop hole in every contract is going to be akin to plugging the holes in the titanic. However, you can take a look at our current management and their working history with the pilot group, as opposed to the old management and their old ways for refrence.

 

[SNAFU_AIR]

I was very much against the idea of PBS. However, I agree with many of the previous posts. PBS is coming to ASA eventually (like it or not). Based on the information that I have seen, I plan on voting yes. I do not believe that we will have the same opportunity during the next round of contract negotiations that we have now.

 

[SLUF4]

I just don't like giving in because I feel like they've been dumping crap schedules on us and preaching doom and gloom for the last year to make us vote this in. But I'm not sure we do have a choice in this current economy. When's the vote open?

 

[SNAFU_AIR]

I have had those exact same thoughts SLUF. Many people I have spoken with feel the same way. I'm basing my decision on what seems (to me) to be the best choice in the long run....IMHO

 

[buscap]

We have pbs at 9e and here are somethings i can tell you
If the pairings are crap - your schedule will be crap
Highspeeds will be mixed in with your normal lines if there are enough of them to do that.
Some months our average days of for all line holders will be 15-16, some months half way down the list will get minimum days off with very unproductive schedules.
you have no idea what you will get until the schedule is awarded
Pref bid is GREAT for senior people but absolutely terrible for junior people.
If you are a junior person it doesnt matter what you put, and I am not exagerating.
Just remember, if it saves ASA money and allows you to be more competitive than so be it, but i would get WHATEVER YOU CAN in return for allowing the company to do this.
Good luck

As per the LOA our standups are kept separate.

We also have quite a few other protections; 4 days capped at 60%, no globalization, vacation maximized for pay or time off, and many others...

It's not perfect, but it does seem to be better than any other system out there; not just the Flightline system, the LOA we negotiated.

 

[JumpersAway]

I just don't like giving in because I feel like they've been dumping crap schedules on us and preaching doom and gloom for the last year to make us vote this in. But I'm not sure we do have a choice in this current economy. When's the vote open?

I hear ya' SLUF. Like you, I wasn't keen to the idea either. However, from where I sit, and from what I see, it just makes sense to do it now, rather than later.

In regard to the crap schedules- no rebuttle here. Our choice pick of four days has been absurd, at best. However, the quandry lies back with the company. The schedules were horrible, and I'm thinking that if this is voted down, they will be much, much worse, if for nothing more than to prove a point. Unfortunately with line bidding, the company is making the lines................

ASA is out to save money, one way or the other, and this seems to be better than just blindly putting our scheduling future in their hands with their creation of our lines.

 

[centralpilot]

We have pbs at 9e and here are somethings i can tell you
If the pairings are crap - your schedule will be crap
Highspeeds will be mixed in with your normal lines if there are enough of them to do that.

CDOs (highspeeds) will not be mixed with normal lines in the proposed system. CDO bidding will be separate with provisions to switch to bidding CDOs in groups or complete lines if bidding on the pairings individually doesn't work as intended.

Crappy pairings equating to crappy schedules is no different than our current situation. A 60% cap on 4-day pairings is something at least, and you'll be hard pressed to find concrete trip construction language in any airline CBA. Airlines don't want to surrender control of their schedule to their labor groups, especially regionals who are at the mercy of their mainline parter's schedule requirements. That is why duty-rigs exist: to motivate the company to build more efficient pairings or at least pay you when they don't.

 

[centralpilot]

I just don't like giving in because I feel like they've been dumping crap schedules on us and preaching doom and gloom for the last year to make us vote this in. But I'm not sure we do have a choice in this current economy. When's the vote open?

The vote is open February 18 and closes March 10.

 

[i fly boxes]

look just posting what i know about ours trying to help. We all know that ASA is the greatest airline in the world and that anyone that does a flight in ATL is the enemy so I am sorry, I should have figured that you guys have it under control.

PS make sure you put avoid deadheads to Vietnam!

 

[79%N1]

Nobody said anything about ASA being the greatest airline in the world, or better than your airline!

You put out there the perils of PBS, as you know it. The reply's you are getting are to the fact that the system ASA is possibly getting is 100% different from the one at 9E, or Skywest, Continental or even Delta. You said this is what PBS is/does and the replies were to refute that under ASA's proposed system none of those apply! Why? Because we are in a uniqe situation to agree to a system more beneficial to our pilot group than most others that have PBS. Sorry if you are jealous of that system, but no need to reply with your glib remarks.

Oh, and I certainly will avoid that deadhead. thanks for the advice.

 

[maxcackel]

100% different? Really?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

18% different.