Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Volcano? KLM flies anyway!!

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

BILL LUMBERG

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
2,074
Probably used all appropriate safety measures but this is pretty dumb if they start doing it with pax. My airline doesn't pay me enough!!


(CNN) -- Dutch airline KLM carried out a test flight Saturday night and detected "no problems" from the volcanic ash that has shut down air travel across much of Europe for the past four days, the airline announced Sunday.
"At first glance there is no reason to suspect that anything is amiss. We observed no irregularities either during the flight or during the initial inspection on the ground," said KLM president and CEO Peter Hartman, who was on the flight.
"Technical inspection conducted after yesterday's flight revealed that no problems had been encountered and that the quality of the atmosphere is in order," the airline said in a statement.
It's planning nine more test flights for Sunday, it said.
Amsterdam's Schiphol airport in the Netherlands is one of the busiest airports in Europe.
Saturday's test involved a Boeing 737-800 flying at an altitude of 41,000 feet (13,000 meters), the maximum altitude for the aircraft.
The first test flight Sunday departed from Dusseldorf, Germany, about 6:30 local time (12:30 a.m. ET).
The aircraft had no passengers on board, but was staffed by a 20-strong crew, the airline said.
"These are test flights," Hartman said. "This does not mean that normal air traffic has been resumed. This matter will be decided on by the Dutch air transport authorities in consultation with the European authorities."
Lufthansa also put planes in the air Saturday, but does not consider them to be test flights, spokesman Aage Duenhaupt said.
The German carrier flew 10 planes from Munich to Frankfurt, but kept below the altitude affected by the volcanic ash, he said.
Most flew at about 9,840 feet (3,000 meters), but one flew at 26,350 feet (8,000 meters).
The purpose was to have them in the right place when travel restrictions are lifted, Duenhaupt said.
The planes encountered no problems, he said.
 
Probably used all appropriate safety measures but this is pretty dumb if they start doing it with pax. My airline doesn't pay me enough!!


(CNN) -- Dutch airline KLM carried out a test flight Saturday night and detected "no problems" from the volcanic ash that has shut down air travel across much of Europe for the past four days, the airline announced Sunday.
"At first glance there is no reason to suspect that anything is amiss. We observed no irregularities either during the flight or during the initial inspection on the ground," said KLM president and CEO Peter Hartman, who was on the flight.
"Technical inspection conducted after yesterday's flight revealed that no problems had been encountered and that the quality of the atmosphere is in order," the airline said in a statement.
It's planning nine more test flights for Sunday, it said.
Amsterdam's Schiphol airport in the Netherlands is one of the busiest airports in Europe.
Saturday's test involved a Boeing 737-800 flying at an altitude of 41,000 feet (13,000 meters), the maximum altitude for the aircraft.
The first test flight Sunday departed from Dusseldorf, Germany, about 6:30 local time (12:30 a.m. ET).
The aircraft had no passengers on board, but was staffed by a 20-strong crew, the airline said.
"These are test flights," Hartman said. "This does not mean that normal air traffic has been resumed. This matter will be decided on by the Dutch air transport authorities in consultation with the European authorities."
Lufthansa also put planes in the air Saturday, but does not consider them to be test flights, spokesman Aage Duenhaupt said.
The German carrier flew 10 planes from Munich to Frankfurt, but kept below the altitude affected by the volcanic ash, he said.
Most flew at about 9,840 feet (3,000 meters), but one flew at 26,350 feet (8,000 meters).
The purpose was to have them in the right place when travel restrictions are lifted, Duenhaupt said.
The planes encountered no problems, he said.

So what do you suggest? This ash cloud could be there for years. Are you suggesting not having any flights to Europe for months or years? Ash is bad for airplanes. We know that, but KLM seems to think this ash cloud is mild enough to not affect airplanes. Their initial test seems to confirm their theory. I have no problem with it.
 
So what do you suggest? This ash cloud could be there for years. Are you suggesting not having any flights to Europe for months or years? Ash is bad for airplanes. We know that, but KLM seems to think this ash cloud is mild enough to not affect airplanes. Their initial test seems to confirm their theory. I have no problem with it.

Sure, tell you what.....

First it's at 26,000 ft, then at night, then we cut the safety margin down to say "we think we can avoid MOST ash plumes" until someone puts one in the drink.

I don't want to cross the ocean at 26,000 feet or the US for that matter.
It's a super idea until someone gets hurt. Send us all south and readjust the tracks and then descend to 16,000 feet once feet dry?? Maybe.....
 
Read about Speedbird 9 and tell me that doesn't give you the willies.

If they can predict where the ash cloud will be and you can avoid it, maybe. But just taxiing through that stuff can kill your engines.
 
hockey, I hear they have a mgt spot at KLM/AF for you. They really like your positive get it done attitude! You don't mind catching the next flight to AMS do you?
 
Sure, tell you what.....

First it's at 26,000 ft, then at night, then we cut the safety margin down to say "we think we can avoid MOST ash plumes" until someone puts one in the drink.

I don't want to cross the ocean at 26,000 feet or the US for that matter.
It's a super idea until someone gets hurt. Send us all south and readjust the tracks and then descend to 16,000 feet once feet dry?? Maybe.....

What's wrong with 26,000 ft? My beloved P-3s and C-130s do it all the time.
 
So what do you suggest? This ash cloud could be there for years. Are you suggesting not having any flights to Europe for months or years? Ash is bad for airplanes. We know that, but KLM seems to think this ash cloud is mild enough to not affect airplanes. Their initial test seems to confirm their theory. I have no problem with it.


KLM carried out a previous "test" in 1989 when they flew a 747-400 through volcanic ash. All four engines failed. $ 80 million damage to the aircraft including the replacement of the engines.
 
Its one thing to fly directly through a volcanic plume as KLM 867 and BA009 did...and another thing entirely to fly through 'diluted' ash thousands of miles downrange from the eruption while climbing or descending.

As long as the engines get borescoped on a regular basis (every flight, every 24 hours, whatever) I don't think safety of flight is really put at any risk...
 
There's only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.
 
I bet it was reserve pilots who flew these "test flights"...

Safety is great until you lose $$$$ trying to honor it... once it becomes too expensive, safety is a nuisance. Let Mikey do it, he'll find the hole in that ash cloud.....
 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/minutes.html




1706:25.59
PA RT
Okay, we'll report when we're clear.

1706:31.69
APP
Thank you.

1706:32.43
KLM 3
Is he not clear, then?

1706:34.10
KLM 1
What do you say?

1706:34.15
PA ?
Yup.

1706:34.70
KLM 3
Is he not clear, that Pan American?

1706:35.70
KLM 1
Oh, yes. [emphatically]

Perhaps because of the KLM pilot's very senior position, neither the copilot nor flight engineer questions the pilot again, and the impact occurs about 13 seconds later.
 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/minutes.html




1706:25.59
PA RT
Okay, we'll report when we're clear.

1706:31.69
APP
Thank you.

1706:32.43
KLM 3
Is he not clear, then?

1706:34.10
KLM 1
What do you say?

1706:34.15
PA ?
Yup.

1706:34.70
KLM 3
Is he not clear, that Pan American?

1706:35.70
KLM 1
Oh, yes. [emphatically]

Perhaps because of the KLM pilot's very senior position, neither the copilot nor flight engineer questions the pilot again, and the impact occurs about 13 seconds later.

Nice, you want to pull up some more CVR transcripts of pilot's before they died to prove some more moronic generalizations? How about some cracks at southerners for some crashes by DAL or Southern Airways?, or how about people from Texas with some AA crashes? I mean, all people from Holland must think just like van Zanten.........
 
You're right. My generalization was out of line. My apologies to the family of Capt Van Zanten.
 
Well, I am a KLM pilot. The impact is huge. Since thursday no more flights in most of Europe. Can you imagine the cost, it's comparable if not worse than 9/11. Just as traffic is starting to pick up.

The stinker is, with the exemption of friday evening we had an awsome sunset, there is nothing but clear blue skies. Even now,at night, very clear skies.

The decision to not fly is made by bureacrats. Now after 3 days of not flying airlines, and not only KLM (also Lufthansa) are starting to question the wisdom and rationele behind the decision and they performed a testflight (btw if conditions are really as bad as some here suggest, you have to admit that it is a pretty balsy move of the CEO to be on board).

Suppose this would happen in the US, with the bad economic state the airlines are in. Everyday you look at clear skies, wouldn't you start to question at least the decision. Wouldn't you like to have some confirmation whether it is really as bad as some 'crat says it is? With your job on the line???

Nobody at KLM takes the safety implications for granted!!!

In reference to an earlier post, these were not reserve pilots, but company test pilots. Just like US airlines, pilots specifically trained with a prior background in aviation engineering or ex airforce test pilots, usually trained in Edwards or PAX or Boscombe down. Would you suggest they are not qualified for that task?
 
Last edited:

Latest resources

Back
Top