Virgin fuels fare war between U.S. airlines

[BOOZENEWS]

And the one thing every pilot ought to take from this thread?


Freight is where the $$$ and job security is at!! UPS and Fedex have grown substantially post 9/11. No Skybus or VA equivilant on the horizion in the cargo world to knock out these 2 giants. Pretty hard barriers to entry to start up a shipping company that could even have a chance to compete with Brown or Purple!

 

[HA25]

And the one thing every pilot ought to take from this thread?


Freight is where the $$$ and job security is at!! UPS and Fedex have grown substantially post 9/11. No Skybus or VA equivilant on the horizion in the cargo world to knock out these 2 giants. Pretty hard barriers to entry to start up a shipping company that could even have a chance to compete with Brown or Purple!

No, totally disagree.. what you can get is that Pilot pay will be directly related to company income.. Therefore, UPS and Fedex, both of which consistently make billions can afford to pay well (frankly a lot better than they do now). Southwest, also a money maker is pay quite well... as well as UPS in my opinion.. BUT.. airlines that aren't making money are less in a position, and the NMB mediators who will arbitrate contracts are in less of a position to award them more favorable pay as a result of their companies inability to make a consistent and strong profit. After all, if Cargo was where all the money is, then why are Atlas, Polar, Gemini, and the other cargo carriers paying so poorly, and with poor work rules and benefits?

Skybus, on the other hand is borrowing on Ryan Air's model. If in Europe with it's more culturally classy population people are paying for the form of discount airfare in droves and making Ryan Air a profitable venture, then there is even a better chance that in the trailer park infested US, there is even a bigger market for this. Therefore, Skybus might be the next Southwest story, where they find a market that has prior to been ignored, and hit the jackpot.. in which case, by rule, they're pilots will do the same (especially those with 4600 stock options on top of the profit sharing). At some point, if Skybus makes it, and becomes very profitable, don't be surprised if they're earning more than the DAL and CAL pilots who will be flying larger equipment into more complicated airports on longer trips (with multiple overnights) to do so.

Skybus is the most capitalized new airline in US History, and they've got a model that's frankly a lot better than JB, VA and other Johnny come lately LCC's.. why? Because it's differentiated from the rest of the pack.. it's new, and it's more like the successful Ryan Air..

Time will tell.

 

[Big Slick]

Did someone mention Ryan Air??

Islip Town officials have entered into talks with a European airline in the hopes of adding international flights at Long Island MacArthur, town Supervisor Phil Nolan said yesterday.

If a deal with Dublin-based Ryanair is approved, flights to Dublin and other European destinations could leave from the town-owned airport, located in Ronkonkoma, next year, officials said.

"Ryanair has indicated interest, and we'll be pursuing this very aggressively," he said.
International flights out of MacArthur were not possible in the past because the runways were too short to accommodate the larger planes needed for overseas travel, said Martin Holley, executive director of the national Aviation Technology Center at Dowling College.

But a new generation of smaller, quieter aircraft capable of traveling greater distances makes it "a serious opportunity," he said.

Islip is a particularly attractive location for Ryanair, Nolan said, because of its proximity to New York and its connections to other cities through Southwest Airlines, the airport's primary carrier.

Speaking a news conference at the airport yesterday, Nolan also announced the retirement of longtime airport manager Al Werner, who is leaving Nov. 16.

Werner, 78, began his career as an air traffic controller at MacArthur in 1952. He oversaw its growth from a small country airport to a regional transportation hub handling 2.3 million passengers a year. He'll remain on contract with the town as a consultant.

Werner said the biggest change he has seen at the airport occurred when Southwest, a Dallas-based airline, built two terminals. Although both US Airways and Delta also operate at MacArthur, Southwest carries 92 percent of passengers.

Southwest embarked on its $82-million expansion in 2003. Then, last year, cracks appeared in the newly installed concrete apron, the area where planes pull up to the terminal. Other problems, including fire hazards and financial irregularities, prompted investigations. But officials said passengers were never endangered. Repair work has begun on the cracks, and new sprinklers have been installed.

Nolan said the town recently won a five-year, $1.02-million grant from the Transportation Security Administration that former Supervisor Pete McGowan rejected. The grant will be used to reimburse the Suffolk County Police Department for costs it has incurred at the airport.

In addition, the town recently received $200,000 from the Suffolk County district attorney's office - unclaimed funds from a McGowan campaign fund seized by District Attorney Thomas Spota before McGowan pleaded guilty to felony charges last year stemming from his misuse of the fund.

The $200,000 will be supplemented by a $300,000 grant from the state Transportation Department and will be used to install security cameras.





Just wait until they are allowed to operate within the U.S.
How about a code share agreement between Ryan Air and Sky Bus?

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Skybus is the most capitalized new airline in US History, and they've got a model that's frankly a lot better than JB, VA and other Johnny come lately LCC's.. why? Because it's differentiated from the rest of the pack.. it's new, and it's more like the successful Ryan Air..
Time will tell.

Skybus WAS the airline with the most startup capital until Virgin America began. I think you are going off of old information; I read that article too, and it was before VA started.

 

[HA25]

Skybus WAS the airline with the most startup capital until Virgin America began. I think you are going off of old information; I read that article too, and it was before VA started.

nevertheless, they're onto something totally different, and have enough capital to give it a good shot.

Too bad really, but this is what de-regulation has given us.

 

[PinnacleDude]

No, totally disagree.. what you can get is that Pilot pay will be directly related to company income.. Therefore, UPS and Fedex, both of which consistently make billions can afford to pay well (frankly a lot better than they do now). Southwest, also a money maker is pay quite well... as well as UPS in my opinion.. BUT.. airlines that aren't making money are less in a position, and the NMB mediators who will arbitrate contracts are in less of a position to award them more favorable pay as a result of their companies inability to make a consistent and strong profit.

Great... then why doesn't Bus unionize and ask for more money? I make more as a regional Captain and that is sad!

 

[HA25]

Great... then why doesn't Bus unionize and ask for more money? I make more as a regional Captain and that is sad!

Their a mere 4 months old.. I'm sure that if/when the profits start rolling in, they'll have no choice but to raise them quite a bit. But with that said, unless you are a 12 year captain at most regionals today, I doubt you make more than them. Keep in mind, $65K is the sit on your ass and not fly a bit more than guarantee. From what I'm told, many of them are working 16-18 days a month and making $85-90K on the CA side, and $36-40K on the FO side.. that's a good bit more than most RJ's and it should be.. it's a 150+ seat 319. I predict that in a couple of years, if they're still around and making the kind of money Ryan is making, they'll be paying B6 rates+profit share, and those stock options will being to have some serious value.

Again, I think Skybus is going to surprise people but only time will tell, so let's stop going in circles and just wait. This thread will still be here.

 

[Caveman]

Skybus is the most capitalized new airline in US History, and they've got a model that's frankly a lot better than JB, VA and other Johnny come lately LCC's.. why? Because it's differentiated from the rest of the pack.. it's new, and it's more like the successful Ryan Air..

Time will tell.

1. They are the most capitalized because they are the most recent. JetBlue was until VA came along. VA was until Skybus came along. The next airline will probably start out with a bigger warchest than Skybus did. The cost of doing business keeps increasing. I'm betting that in 2000 dollars the startup for VA and Skybus is real similar to what JetBlue started with.

2. How is the Skybus business model "a lot better than JB"? Just because you have a monopoly on the highly competitive and desirable Bellingham to CMH market? You cram 150+ into a 319, charge extra for everything, fly to alternative cities and that somehow automatically makes your model better than the 8th largest U.S. airline? You haven't even posted your 1st ever quarter results yet. How do you know you have a good model? Frankly, most folks think you have a weird business model. Well funded or not, the jury is definitely still out on whether or not Skybus will be successful.

We agree on one thing: time will tell.

 

[HA25]

Good post Caveman.. In the end there is a lot of risk to their plan, but if there is one thing I learned from an MBA in Finance is this..

RISK=RETURN

 

[BigMeat]

VA to me is a threat. Skybus is an annoyance that will soon shed enough money to go away. 65 dollars an hour to fly the aircraft that their peers do for twice as much. Do you people have no respectability? Even if they do stay in business why would you go there. Go to a good company like Expressjet and ASA. At least there you can make a good living with great benefits.