Virgin fuels fare war between U.S. airlines

[PCL_128]

Pinnacle CRJ pay and work rules are hardly "average". There crap.... and just like you PCL 128 I support ALPA, but calling PCL pay and work rules average is a little off.

In 1999 when the agreement was made, the PCL pay rates and work rules were average. Remember, this contract was signed before any of the huge advances were made with carriers such as CMR and Horizon. Back when the agreement was signed, the rates and work rules were pretty good, especially for a small Saab operator with maybe a prospect of getting regional jets someday. Trying to compare an 8 year old agreement to all of the new contracts isn't a valid comparison.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

In 1999 when the agreement was made, the PCL pay rates and work rules were average. Remember, this contract was signed before any of the huge advances were made with carriers such as CMR and Horizon. Back when the agreement was signed, the rates and work rules were pretty good, especially for a small Saab operator with maybe a prospect of getting regional jets someday. Trying to compare an 8 year old agreement to all of the new contracts isn't a valid comparison.

If you look at Comair, ASA, and AWAC, which I know is not all the regionals at the time that operated the CRJ, PCL pay and work rules were and are not average.

 

[PCL_128]

If you look at Comair, ASA, and AWAC, which I know is not all the regionals at the time that operated the CRJ, PCL pay and work rules were and are not average.

Care to provide a reference to back up that assertion? All of my ALPA negotiations records are packed away now, but I can assure you that when you averaged all of the payrates for CBAs that contained 50-seat jet rates in 1999, the PCL rates were middle of the pack. They quickly fell behind as the other carrier negotiated new CBAs in the next few years, but the rates at the time were not below standard.

 

[BigMeat]

PCL_128

I have no beef with Gulfstream PFTers and I although I don't agree with it, I have no qualms with pilots who elect to go that route. What puzzles me is that you have some major agend in degrading everyone with whom you think is "selling out the industry" or "dragging the industry down" and as a former Gulfstream PFTer you don't have ANY credibility whatsoever in preeching about "dragging the industry down". I could care less about what you did 8 years ago and I don't hold that against you but at the same time you should get off your high horse and stop being flight info's biggest hypocrite.

Respectfully, Splitbar

PFT is long gone. Its not coming back anytime in the near future. VA is here and they are the threat. They are an "outside entity". I can see how PFT was a problem. It isnt anymore. Lets get our priority straight! VA and Pres. Bush that allowed this are the real threats. I wonder what he will do before he leaves. Maybe allow open skies with China? That would suck donkey bals!

 

[kngarthur]

No, the government should have denied VA a certificate because it is a foreign-owned airline and worse, a "hobby business" started by some aviation romantic who imagines himself cut from the same cloth as Juan Trippe or Herb Kelleher, convenietly ignoring the fact that he is worth twelve billion dollars and unlike publicly-held companies, does not have to show a profit.

I hope he is sent packing by the free market. (Probably not since he is above such economic realities.)

Since the US dollar is losing value, and with the threat of inflation, foriegn companies are at an unfair advantage of dumping prices.

Try to tell that to our idiodic government! Sell out's!!!! I bet a 300 pound hooker would would sell herself for more than some of our politicians.

Maybe our government should stop wasting time by trying to control the climate through taxes, aka "Global Warming".

 

[HA25]

Take a look at our payrates and work rules, and then compare them to VA. VA is doing the work for 2/3rds of what everyone else is, with the exception of Skybus, which is doing it for 1/3rd.

I remember when I said the same stuff about Airtran and Southwest back in 2000... when the majors were working on their big contracts.. so it cuts both ways.

btw.. Skybus pay is actually not what it seems.. fact is, their 1st year pay is more than all but UPS, Fedex and by a hair, DAL.. and they pay 100% medical while in training unlike CAL.. more over, inside one year, you're a CA with a 80-90K/yr paycheck, and that's 1st year CA pay.. then there is profit sharing and the 5000 stock options which depending on how the company does can be worth peanuts or a million or more.. so it's not like they're doing anything different than Southwest did when they were an upstart.

In the end, the biggest problem is the lack of unity in this profession and the free for all that has come into place due to the corporate nature of ALPA tying a pilot to his airline, and not his profession.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Skybus is the last of our problems compared to VA. The problem is that VA will be subsidized by the rest of Bransons companies. Companies like T-mobile, Virgin records, Virgin Atlantic etc.

Richard Branson owns neither T-Mobile, nor Virgin Records. He sold Virgin Records in 1992 and he never owned T-Mobile. T-Mobile is owned by Deutsche Telekom. You are probably thinking of Virgin Mobile.

Both Richard Branson and T-Mobile owned half of Virgin Mobile, but they are not affiliated other than that.

Virgin America entered the market with around $177 million and Skybus entered the market with over $160 million in startup capital. In comparison, Jet Blue only managed $130 million when they began. Plus Skybus has 12 years of tax incentives and business loans from the Port of Columbus.

I wouldn't underestimate Skybus.

 

[HA25]

Virgin America entered the market with around $177 million and Skybus entered the market with over $160 million in startup capital. In comparison, Jet Blue only managed $130 million when they began. Plus Skybus has 12 years of tax incentives and business loans from the Port of Columbus.

I wouldn't underestimate Skybus.

Skybus also had the foresight to purchase 12 year maintenance contracts on every one of their 65 319's so that they don't fall into the trap that B6 fell into when their warranty crapped out..

I'd say they have as much chance to make it the next 5 years as anyone else.. UAL, DAL, et al included.

 

[vixin]

Stybus pay,
Capt pay is $68.42/hr, FO $31.58/hr

Some fuzzy math to say Stybus 1st year pay is 80-90G. After 1 year at SWA one would make more. Yet you didnt mention them in your previous post.

 

[HA25]

Stybus pay,
Capt pay is $68.42/hr, FO $31.58/hr

Some fuzzy math to say Stybus 1st year pay is 80-90G. After 1 year at SWA one would make more. Yet you didnt mention them in your previous post.

I am told they don't pay per/hour but more of a trip credit method, so this is how the 85-90 is achieved. More over, WN wasn't exactly an industry leading paycheck 30 years ago when they were in their infancy. I'm sure if Skybus makes it as a business model, and generate enough market share, their pilots will demand more.. it's the natural order of things, humans always want more, and more, and more.. which is a good thing.