Virgin fuels fare war between U.S. airlines

[82spukram]

Therefore, Skybus might be the next Southwest story, where they find a market that has prior to been ignored, and hit the jackpot.. in which case, by rule, they're pilots will do the same (especially those with 4600 stock options on top of the profit sharing). At some point, if Skybus makes it, and becomes very profitable, don't be surprised if they're earning more than the DAL and CAL pilots who will be flying larger equipment into more complicated airports on longer trips (with multiple overnights) to do so.


http://www.ipapilot.com/PDF/Airline salaries 2006.pdf

BA in Euros top pay makes 131 Euros, Ryan Air Makes about 54 Euros a year......So if you think that SKybus has the same model as RyanAir then why would they suddenly pay like WN (for those of you wondering its about 7k USD a month). I understand that I work for B6 and that some would say I am dragging down the industry because I help clean the airplane so I am not knocking Skybus to hard but what makes you think that you are going to get paid like WN who btw everyone knocked them pretty hard for signing a contract for 10 years with a pay freeze at the front end and by pure luck on their part the rest of the industry took a dump. And as far as RJ pay I worked for XJT first year (half old contract half new) 26k, second 42k, third 72k, if I stayed for the 4th would have held a line and probably 80-85k. Also since you bring up RyanAir so much they have some of the industry worst work rules so I am not sure if that is the business model I would hope to work for.

 

[Skank]

No, totally disagree.. what you can get is that Pilot pay will be directly related to company income.. Therefore, UPS and Fedex, both of which consistently make billions can afford to pay well (frankly a lot better than they do now). Southwest, also a money maker is pay quite well... as well as UPS in my opinion.. BUT.. airlines that aren't making money are less in a position, and the NMB mediators who will arbitrate contracts are in less of a position to award them more favorable pay as a result of their companies inability to make a consistent and strong profit. After all, if Cargo was where all the money is, then why are Atlas, Polar, Gemini, and the other cargo carriers paying so poorly, and with poor work rules and benefits?

Skybus, on the other hand is borrowing on Ryan Air's model. If in Europe with it's more culturally classy population people are paying for the form of discount airfare in droves and making Ryan Air a profitable venture, then there is even a better chance that in the trailer park infested US, there is even a bigger market for this. Therefore, Skybus might be the next Southwest story, where they find a market that has prior to been ignored, and hit the jackpot.. in which case, by rule, they're pilots will do the same (especially those with 4600 stock options on top of the profit sharing). At some point, if Skybus makes it, and becomes very profitable, don't be surprised if they're earning more than the DAL and CAL pilots who will be flying larger equipment into more complicated airports on longer trips (with multiple overnights) to do so.

Skybus is the most capitalized new airline in US History, and they've got a model that's frankly a lot better than JB, VA and other Johnny come lately LCC's.. why? Because it's differentiated from the rest of the pack.. it's new, and it's more like the successful Ryan Air..

Time will tell.

I know it is easy to assume that the population in Europe is "more culturally classy," but as someone who has lived there for 4 years, and travelled there quite a bit, I think you'd find that it is no different than the U.S. (with a few exceptions).

Another point you make that I find difficult to digest is that "pilot pay will be directly related to income." In recent memory the cycle begins when the economy expands. Profits soar, and the airlines all begin to hire to keep up with the expansion. The pilot unions then begin to demand a bigger part of the profits. Various contract mechanisms allow the companies to delay raising the pay and benefits of the pilots (and other work groups) until the economy slows. By then, the raises can no longer be sustained by the revenues, or are avoided, altogether. The cycle goes on, an on.

And, just what about Skybus' business model is so vastly superior to what's already out there? You mention Ryan, but Ryan was born in an environment that was dominated by the European national carries who were gettng away with huge ticket prices. There was no low fare compeitition in Europe. That is not the case in the U.S.

In any case, you are right. We will have to wait and see. I personally think VA is in a better position in every way to suceed.

 

[HA25]

curious, does VA offer stock options? Cause if not, it would be a LONG time before anyone of their underpaid pilots got to reap in the rewards of the returns they expect to generate. This is where I think Skybus is a good risk for a pilot to take, it's not a big paycheck up front, but should (and this is the key word).. should it make it and grow to 65 airplanes in 5 years, they are going to do well when it IPO's and this is where I think it's a good bit better a deal than VA.

I also think VA's model isn't new and differentiated from America West (now US Air), or Southwest in some ways.. (though more so HP). Whereas Skybus is going totally no frills (or at least they're all ala carte) and flying into very far flung airports where the market has totally been ignored.

 

[120% Torque]

curious, does VA offer stock options? Cause if not, it would be a LONG time before anyone of their underpaid pilots got to reap in the rewards of the returns they expect to generate. This is where I think Skybus is a good risk for a pilot to take, it's not a big paycheck up front, but should (and this is the key word).. should it make it and grow to 65 airplanes in 5 years, they are going to do well when it IPO's and this is where I think it's a good bit better a deal than VA.

I also think VA's model isn't new and differentiated from America West (now US Air), or Southwest in some ways.. (though more so HP). Whereas Skybus is going totally no frills (or at least they're all ala carte) and flying into very far flung airports where the market has totally been ignored.

You sound like someone who is trying to make yourself feel better about a decision you are making or made. Just my perception, thats all.

 

[HA25]

You sound like someone who is trying to make yourself feel better about a decision you are making or made. Just my perception, thats all.

I'm actually giving serious thought to applying.. yes. Done a lot of research outside of pilot forums on it, and with the benefit of hindsight, would anyone have turned down Southwest 30 years ago?

Anyway, far cry from thinking about it, and being called in to interview.

 

[HA25]

There is the chatter and anger you see on FI.com and other pilot message boards, and then there is the reality of a new and exciting move in the industry that might be part of a future none of us wanted to see, but one that we may have no control over.. Though I have to admit that I'm a bit bothered by the FA's being on commission. A pushing or aggressive seller might turn off pax. I think they should re-think that model and just pay industry standard wages for FA's which are so low anyway..

http://www.dailypress.com/sns-trvrail3-wk1,0,7932813.story

 

[AV80R]

Nice Freudian slip!!

Yeah, I noticed that too...