Virgin America reported a $12 million operating loss

[weasel_lips]

Pilots dislike VA for the same reason Jetblue was hated years ago. The pay and benefits are pathetic. Jebtlue was able to fix some of those issues. VA still has a long way to go. In the end airlines that can't be competitive in compensation and benefits are bad for all of us.

The problem with the airline industry has been too many competitors in the market operating at a loss just to keep or gain marketshare. Finally the industry is correcting that by removing capacity.

Now here comes another startup... Virgin America adding capacity. Bragging about adding airplanes. The cycle continues once again. They operate at a huge loss just trying to gain or maintain market share... and in the process depress yields for everyone else.

 

[NEDude]

The problem with the airline industry has been too many competitors in the market operating at a loss just to keep or gain marketshare. Finally the industry is correcting that by removing capacity.

Now here comes another startup... Virgin America adding capacity. Bragging about adding airplanes. The cycle continues once again. They operate at a huge loss just trying to gain or maintain market share... and in the process depress yields for everyone else.

Yeah, the legacies have never operated at a loss to maintain, or gain, market share. And they have never used government loans, or protectionism to grow.

If historical profitability is the gauge for deciding which airline should live, and which should die, then there would be no industry.

 

[curtaindriver]

The problem with the airline industry has been too many competitors in the market operating at a loss just to keep or gain marketshare. Finally the industry is correcting that by removing capacity.

Now here comes another startup... Virgin America adding capacity. Bragging about adding airplanes. The cycle continues once again. They operate at a huge loss just trying to gain or maintain market share... and in the process depress yields for everyone else.

Then let history prove to be the correct process. Start-ups practically never make it. If VA continues, it will have to raise fares to survive. When any Legacy carrier begins a new market, it stimulates that market with cheap fares. A new airline entrant basically does the same thing. If the new market, or airline in this case, doesn't create the demand necessary.........it fails. That is as simple as it gets for VA.

But, if a pilot group of the said start-up doesn't eventually reach parity, then I have no remorse if that group hits the streets. In my opinion, I don't believe that burden should be cast upon VA pilots yet. If I had it my way, there would be a single pay system amongst all the carriers, and it would be up to the company to find a way to compete. That is a pipe dream, obviously.

CD

 

[DB Cooper]

I would think a more useful comparison would be Jet Blue at the 3.5 year mark. Not Skybus or Indy.

DB

 

[Fubijaakr]

jetBlue was crowing that they'd have 200 Airbus knocking out the legacys with their "new paradigm".

The only thing that saved jetBlue is that they were the "hometown airline" in the biggest O/D market in the world.

How many airplanes do they have 10 years later? 115 A320 and 36 E190. Not quite the 200 they were gloating about.

Virgin pilots are doing the replay. Gloating about airplanes they don't have. Unfortunately, they don't have the "hometown" tag on the largest O/D market either. SFO and LAX are cutthroat and they can't seem to get established anywhere else. SNA and YYZ were busts. They'll be out of DFW by Xmas. And United just dumped 16 flights on top of them in ORD. They won't last there, either.

Comparing Virgin to jetBlue has holes big enough to drive a Mack truck through.

 

[SMcC]

...How many airplanes do they have 10 years later? 115 A320 and 36 E190. Not quite the 200 they were gloating about...

Do these numbers qualify as failure, as you're suggesting?
I don't think so.

 

[hateairlines]

Actually JBLU will have 169 airplanes this fall. Not bad considering 9/11, $100+ oil, and one of the worst recessions ever. Not 200 but still not bad??

 

[OurMoney1]

Who knows VA may last forever but the investors are suckers because with the losses to date it is obvious they have been taken for a ride.

Its a birdie on a wire and the people holding the wire have been duped.

 

[BeachBummer]

jetBlue was crowing that they'd have 200 Airbus knocking out the legacys with their "new paradigm".

The only thing that saved jetBlue is that they were the "hometown airline" in the biggest O/D market in the world.

How many airplanes do they have 10 years later? 115 A320 and 36 E190. Not quite the 200 they were gloating about.

QUOTE]

Gosh... we ought to close the doors right now... I can't believe that we only have 150planes flying(I think more but I'll have to check) in a decade that brought us terroist attacks, multiple economic down turns and the most expensive fuel cost in history.

JetBlue sucks.

Maybe I missed your point?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Do these numbers qualify as failure, as you're suggesting?
I don't think so.

Not 200 but still not bad??

Maybe I missed your point?

You all obviously missed the point. Don't be so defensive. Nobody said jetBlue wasn't a decent niche carrier. Your management saw a hole in the NYC market and filled it admirably. Its allowed you to become a stable place to work.

The point was that when you started, you pilots were all over the internet crowing about how you'd have 200 airplanes by 2004 and would drive the legacies out of business. It didn't happen.

Now we see the Virgin pilots doing the same thing.

jetBlue's advantage that allowed them to become a stable airline was the fact that they carved a niche out of the Big Apple, the world's biggest media and O/D market.

Virgin won't be able to replicate that because SFO isn't JFK. The legacies won't ignore the VX assault on the West Coast because jetBlue taught them the peril of doing so.

The only comparison I was making was the hubris of the initial jetBlue pilot cadre and the current VX roosters. While jetBlue had a market and the NYC media behind them, all VX has is Sir Dick's money, mood lighting and busboy uniforms for pilots.