Virgin America QOL

[cbrown1]

From those who work there...does it sound like many pilots will be when/if the majors start hiring?

Hows the internal vibe with all that is or isn't happening financially?

I was there and I left and I'm trying to get a few of my friends from their on here as well.

 

[Caddaddy]

I left.....start my new gig on Monday. It's a great place to work as long as you know as a new hire today or you're in the bottom 25% or so that you probably won't upgrade for at least 10 years. I base this opinion on the scheduled and cancelled deliveries.

 

[ualdriver]

http://www.virginamerica.com/press-...ica-2012-third-quarter-financial-results.html

There is Virgin America's latest reported financial statement. We're all still waiting for the 4th quarter results, and it's already the end of March.

Whether you guys think anyone is a VA basher or not, can't even the most objective poster in this thread say that there is substantial risk in leaving a secure job and coming to VA considering the airline's financial performance to date?

I think many of the posters above are being incredibly disingenuous when they tell fellow forumites (and potential applicants) that VA is making an "operational profit" so therefore somehow things are getting better? If money was free I'd agree with that statement, but clearly it is not. Click the link and see for yourself.

All I am saying is that an applicant should go in eyes wide open. Don't believe me because obviously I am not a VA fan. Don't believe the posters above as obviously they are equally as biased. Click the link above, go to the VA website and click on the airline's press releases and read them for yourself. How anyone could look at those numbers and see an airline that is "turning a corner" is beyond me. There is no way I would leave a job for VA unless it was a flight instructing job.

 

[bri5150]

http://www.virginamerica.com/press-...ica-2012-third-quarter-financial-results.html

There is Virgin America's latest reported financial statement. We're all still waiting for the 4th quarter results, and it's already the end of March.

Whether you guys think anyone is a VA basher or not, can't even the most objective poster in this thread say that there is substantial risk in leaving a secure job and coming to VA considering the airline's financial performance to date?

I think many of the posters above are being incredibly disingenuous when they tell fellow forumites (and potential applicants) that VA is making an "operational profit" so therefore somehow things are getting better? If money was free I'd agree with that statement, but clearly it is not. Click the link and see for yourself.

All I am saying is that an applicant should go in eyes wide open. Don't believe me because obviously I am not a VA fan. Don't believe the posters above as obviously they are equally as biased. Click the link above, go to the VA website and click on the airline's press releases and read them for yourself. How anyone could look at those numbers and see an airline that is "turning a corner" is beyond me. There is no way I would leave a job for VA unless it was a flight instructing job.

By no means do I think it is not a risk to come here, and if you are not up for a big risk big reward situation, then stay away. I am basing my "turning the corner" statements on information that is not yet released (because they don't release it until just before DOT does, which you can see by clicking on those press releases you were talking about). The information in your link is information that is from a quarter that ended 6 months ago. My comments are based on the information we have had an operational profit in the 4th quarter for the first time (not released) and 1st quarter is waaaaay better than 1st quarter last year and even better than their goals set for this year. Load factors are up (obviously depends on ticket price for revenue, but I don't have that info). It has been said over and over again that our investors want an operational profit, and that seems to be what we are getting now.

There are certainly more jobs than just flight instructing that make it worth the risk to come here. I can tell you I was more than happy to get out of Pinnacle to get some Airbus time, an A320 type, and the chance at a possible great job here.

As I have said before, unless something goes drastically wrong it looks like we will make an operational profit for the year. This seems to be more than just management blowing hot air this time. The numbers from the last few quarters support it. We will NOT make a net profit, but the investors don't care. They are getting the money that we are losing as the net portion of the profit (loss).

Just to reiterate...we are not a stable place to work like Delta, United, or American at this point. If you want a high risk, high reward place to work, then here we are. I don't even try to talk my friends into coming here. I state the good points and the bad points and they can make their decision. I just have to say more good points here because there are plenty of bad points already being made.

 

[Blue Dude]

I'm not seeing the "high reward" part of the high risk/high reward equation.

 

[bri5150]

I'm not seeing the "high reward" part of the high risk/high reward equation.

Really? The top 500ish at jetBlue aren't in a "high reward" spot? Who knows? Maybe we will be a 53 aircraft A320 operator with 20ish destinations for 30 years. I kinda doubt it though. If you can't see the high reward, I guess Virgin America isn't for you then. Dispite what I say here, I am a realist...the future is unknown for any airline. We could become the next Southwest and I will be top 500 there. We could shut down next year...I guarantee we won't make it through my career without some type of merger. That could be high reward or risk...who knows?

 

[Blue Dude]

Really? The top 500ish at jetBlue aren't in a "high reward" spot?

It's from my perspective as a "top 500ish at JetBlue" that allows me to say with some confidence that there is no "high reward" to this. It's very likely a career dead end. Sure, the paycheck still clears but that could all stop at any time - and we're making money. What do you think is in JetBlue's future in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? To retirement? Think it'll still be here and that lofty perch of sub-500 seniority will be worth anything?

Now ask those same questions in re VA and tell me that even if the company survives it'll be a sacrifice worth making. What's the end goal here anyway?

 

[Andy]

The information in your link is information that is from a quarter that ended 6 months ago. My comments are based on the information we have had an operational profit in the 4th quarter for the first time (not released) and 1st quarter is waaaaay better than 1st quarter last year and even better than their goals set for this year. Load factors are up (obviously depends on ticket price for revenue, but I don't have that info). It has been said over and over again that our investors want an operational profit, and that seems to be what we are getting now.

As I have said before, unless something goes drastically wrong it looks like we will make an operational profit for the year. This seems to be more than just management blowing hot air this time. The numbers from the last few quarters support it. We will NOT make a net profit, but the investors don't care. They are getting the money that we are losing as the net portion of the profit (loss).

Bri, Virgin America's management has proven time and again to be serial exaggerators (I will refrain from using a less complimentary description of them) when it comes to profitability. I previously posted that the very best case scenario that I could come up with was $10 million operating profit for the fourth quarter. Now that I've seen all of the quarter's load data, the very best case scenario that I can come up with is a $5 million operating profit (I'm still waiting to see your fourth quarter fuel costs, which I expect will be higher than the numbers I used). However, my realistic guess is that Virgin America will have an operating loss for the quarter. But the problem isn't with operating profit or loss, it's about available cash on hand. With almost $30 million per quarter in interest payments, Virgin America is rapidly running out of cash.


You mention that load factors are up. They certainly weren't up in the fourth quarter according to Virgin's DOT filings. Go to this link: Traffic statistics tool (scheduled service, 2000-present), includes Passengers, RPMs, ASMs, load factor, flights
Change carrier to 'Virgin America' and select 'load factor'


January's load factors haven't been published on that page yet but I've run some rough numbers based on another DOT report and it looks like Virgin's load factors in January were around 70%. I don't know how February and March are, but both fourth quarter and what I've seen for first quarter look worse than a year earlier.


Virgin may have gotten back ~$25 million from the sale/leaseback of their latest aircraft (Virgin had more than $40 million in progress payments on the latest aircraft that was delivered), but I don't see any other ways for Virgin to raise cash outside of another loan.


As far as current load factors, I've looked at Virgin's airfare sales over the last month and it looks like they're dumping a large percentage of seats at below cost on all routes. So while Virgin America may show decent loads, it doesn't mean much if they continue to dump most of their seats at well below cost.

 

[Flyer1015]

ualdriver, no one needs any convincing about VX, pilots should be mature enough to make their own decisions. Fact still remains there is no shortage of pilots who would like to work here, and many good guys haven't even gotten a call.

 

[ualdriver]

ualdriver, no one needs any convincing about VX, pilots should be mature enough to make their own decisions. Fact still remains there is no shortage of pilots who would like to work here, and many good guys haven't even gotten a call.

It has nothing to do with being "mature." There are a lot of posters on these forums who seem to imply or think that VA is rounding some sort of corner. There is NOTHING to indicate that whatsoever. If I was a VA pilot answering questions about possible employment I would preface each statement with a statement describing the precarious financial condition of the airline. That's only fair as many guys don't read 10Qs or DOT data. It would suck for a guy to leave a decent job only to have his new job at VA suddenly disappear due to the financial difficulties of the airline. It would suck even worse if a VA kool-aid drinker put his own desires to "cheerlead" ahead of a VA new hire's financial well being.