Virgin America is here

[dtfl]

Cappy--What's the pay for the check airmen? Thanks for the info.TC

At the Air Inc Job fair this weekend, Skybus briefed that they hired their firest 2-3 check airmen Capts at a cometitive salary of 80k with stock options.
I'd guess it will be close. I can make 80k working in the AF reserves.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

80k for check airmen captains. Wonder what check groundmen truck drivers get paid? Un-freak-ing-believable.

 

[CF34-3B1]

At the Air Inc Job fair this weekend, Skybus briefed that they hired their firest 2-3 check airmen Capts at a cometitive salary of 80k with stock options.

We have senior F/A's making more than that.

 

[Old School 737]

Skybus

At the Air Inc Job fair this weekend, Skybus briefed that they hired their firest 2-3 check airmen Capts at a cometitive salary of 80k with stock options.
I'd guess it will be close. I can make 80k working in the AF reserves.

Where does Skybus plan to fly? Their web site has nothing of useful value.

 

[captain caveman]

I saw 3 Virgin America 320s in Montreal yesterday. I guess they're getting interior work or something.

 

[dtfl]

Where does Skybus plan to fly? Their web site has nothing of useful value.

yeah they mentioned the website is useless....let me check my notes..
umm didnt write that down - sorry. They did mention they are paperless...no flight kits to carry - all electronic....maybe even doing away with ties..and a multitude of shirt colors so you can choose your wardrobe each time you fly.
A319s with HUDs for CAPT and FO (I like that seeing as how I fly a HUD in my new C130)...errr....thats about all I remember. They are modeling themselves after Ryan Air in Europe and have some execs there right now "Studying" their operations.

 

[dtfl]

80k for check airmen captains. Wonder what check groundmen truck drivers get paid? Un-freak-ing-believable.

The briefer said the difference in pay would be made up in stock...and if you are being paid partly in stock, you will MAKE SURE your company does well.
..........Until the market takes a turn for the worse and regardless of what you do...it tubes...that's my thought. Id rather have the cash in the bank

 

[MalteseX]

Virgin America Proposed Pay

No kidding. We have photos of VA jets, "We are HIRING!!" quotes, rumours of all types, and not a peep yet about wages. Hmmm. I bet they are so high, they are being kept a secret so as to not anger shareholders.

On an earlier post in another forum, Virgin America applied for and received $10M from California for training ...... and people commented on it at length.

As part of the filing for the funds, they had to specify the hourly wages of trainees 90 days or more after completing training.

In documents that Virgin America filed with the state of California, the hourly wage of pilots after being fully qualified will fall in the range of:

$41.00 per hour starting to $126.00 per hour maximum. (With a note that says most employees (i.e. pilots) will start at the minimum wage).

 

[MalteseX]

........deleted

 

[Andy]

80k for check airmen captains. Wonder what check groundmen truck drivers get paid? Un-freak-ing-believable.

Check airmen with a checkered past, I'd say. You get what you pay for.

 

[Andy]

In documents that Virgin America filed with the state of California, the hourly wage of pilots after being fully qualified will fall in the range of:

$41.00 per hour starting to $126.00 per hour maximum. (With a note that says most employees (i.e. pilots) will start at the minimum wage).

Let the downward wage spiral continue! This will reverberate throughout the profession.
It's only a matter of time before a well paid A380/787 Captain is pulling down a very low 6 figure income. That is, until a six figure salary for an airline pilot becomes extinct.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Check airmen with a checkered past, I'd say. You get what you pay for.

You know this for a fact Andy? Don't know bro! It is hard to say what you are going to do if you suddenly find yourself without a job and with very few options as this career has. In the late 80's I went from the panel on the 27 on the national flag carrier to a Navajo after the carrier closed. It seems a little harsh to call these guys "Checkered" unless you have first knowledge. This career has a heavy handed way of humbling Dude.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Dumb Pilot. Good point Sir.

I would like to expand on my comment(s) earlier saying that I think it is unbelievable that some airlines only want to pay Check Airmen 80+K/year.

While I think that Check Airmen pilots are worth quite a bit more than 80+k/year, I do not blame anyone for taking such a position. 80+/K a year is obvioiusly a lot more money as compared to being unemployed. Where I in the same shoes, I could not come home (not that I would be anywhere if I were unemployed) to my wife and kids and look them in the eye having turned down a job that puts food on the table and a roof over their heads.

Bottom line, you do what you have to do to survive. If that means taking a job for 80K a year as a Check Airman, so be it.

Good luck to all of you that are out there everyday looking for that next flying job. I've been there.

 

[720persecond]

Dumb Pilot. Good point Sir.

I would like to expand on my comment(s) earlier saying that I think it is unbelievable that some airlines only want to pay Check Airmen 80+K/year.

While I think that Check Airmen pilots are worth quite a bit more than 80+k/year, I do not blame anyone for taking such a position. 80+/K a year is obvioiusly a lot more money as compared to being unemployed. Where I in the same shoes, I could not come home (not that I would be anywhere if I were unemployed) to my wife and kids and look them in the eye having turned down a job that puts food on the table and a roof over their heads.

Bottom line, you do what you have to do to survive. If that means taking a job for 80K a year as a Check Airman, so be it.

Good luck to all of you that are out there everyday looking for that next flying job. I've been there.

So true.

 

[Andy]

You know this for a fact Andy? Don't know bro! It is hard to say what you are going to do if you suddenly find yourself without a job and with very few options as this career has. In the late 80's I went from the panel on the 27 on the national flag carrier to a Navajo after the carrier closed. It seems a little harsh to call these guys "Checkered" unless you have first knowledge. This career has a heavy handed way of humbling Dude.

Of course I don't know it for a fact. However, if flying airplanes is the ONLY thing that a laid off pilot can do, s/he is quite stupid. This business has it's ups and downs, and if you aren't prepared to walk away from aviation to make sure that you can get a decent paycheck, you are fueling the downward spiral in wages.

I've been furloughed since Mar '02 and haven't turned a wheel since Sep '02 (with my Guard unit). I could've taken a job with a regional paying dirt wages, but chose work outside of aviation to get a decent paycheck.

Those that fail to plan plan to fail.

 

[BOOZENEWS]

Of course I don't know it for a fact. However, if flying airplanes is the ONLY thing that a laid off pilot can do, s/he is quite stupid. This business has it's ups and downs, and if you aren't prepared to walk away from aviation to make sure that you can get a decent paycheck, you are fueling the downward spiral in wages.

I've been furloughed since Mar '02 and haven't turned a wheel since Sep '02 (with my Guard unit). I could've taken a job with a regional paying dirt wages, but chose work outside of aviation to get a decent paycheck.

Those that fail to plan plan to fail.

Exactly. Why doesn't every pilot have a plan B to have a stable, well paying job outside of aviation when you are put in this situation rather than lowering the bar at everyone else's expense. You'd think because pilots plan so carefully on an alternative course of action when the weather deteriorates or an in flight emergency occurs that they would have the smarts to have a well paying backup job outside of aviation and not contribute to the spiral down in aviation. Every pilot needs a solid, useful plan B to aviod the perdiciment that Coool Hand Luke refers to.

The bigger issue I see here is our society in this day and age has conditioned many of us to accept mediocrity and be satisfied with less than we deserve. Thank God for the most part those types of people are not in out military fighting Islamic facist's who would kill all of us in a heartbeat if they could.

 

[shindler]

I couldn' t agree more,
that' s why I am heading on the other side of the Atlantic so I don't have to get 2 weeks notice about my salary ( and my life) been cut in half and/or have a side business "just in case".

 

[Whine Lover]

- "I could've taken a job with a regional paying dirt wages, but chose work outside of aviation to get a decent paycheck."

- " many of us.. accept mediocrity and (are) satisfied with less than we deserve."

A(fargin' )MEN.


I am NOT alone...(?)


YKW

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Time will tell if your decision or those that chose to work for SkyBus or Virgin proved to be the correct one. Almost three decades ago a bunch of guys went with this crazy Idea that some business man had down in Memphis, and started flying this raggedy falcon 20's around the Midwest attempting to start an overnight package delivery service. Back in the day people used to say "Only a whole bunch of crazy rednecks would come up with a crazy idea like that." Well, It turned out OK for them, now just about everybody is Purple with envy. Some other folks decided to go work for another startup in one of the most competitive markets (If not "The Most") out of New York and compete head to head with the majors. Just plain crazy, everyone said that they would be closed within a couple of years. I don't hear them singing the Blues. Some others saw a well financed, well though out business plan in another startup operating out of Vegas flying brand new 757's and found themselves looking for jobs a couple of years later, nobody saw that coming that fast. I mean one day the buzz was so strong that it was the only thing you could hear in the aviation circles and the next day they where gone. Now half of the generation "X" that visit FlightInfo probably haven't even heard of National Airlines.

For those that decided to get out of aviation all together because you didn't agree with the direction that the industry is taking. Your decision is not unique, a lot of folks back in the last down turn of the industry that saw PanAm, Eastern and Braniff close their doors forever took your path and got out (Including me) after Eastern closed. I wanted nothing to do with this business because I didn't want to be an Airline pilot, I wanted to be an Eastern Airlines pilot. I was on the hiring pool when everything came tumbling down. I returned a couple of years later after my heartache subsided a bit and flew corporate for many years.

Later I accepted the meager wages as an F/O in the regionals thinking that it would be a stepping stone for me. And for a brief period, it looked to be just that way when I started to get interviews left and right from AA ,UA, CAL. It wasn't Eastern, but I was starting to feel good about returning to flying after all. And then one September morning the world changed forever. And here I am, still at a regional. But you know what? I'm happy.
People chose in different ways but is up to each individual to feel good about their choices and there will always be others who will disagree with the path you chose.

Good luck to all that decided to quit aviation for good. But one recommendation for you, If you stop smoking don't seat in the smoking section. So go lurk in the sites that theme your current trade.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

I've been furloughed since Mar '02 and haven't turned a wheel since Sep '02 (with my Guard unit). I could've taken a job with a regional paying dirt wages, but chose work outside of aviation to get a decent paycheck.
Those that fail to plan plan to fail.

You haven't flown for almost four and a-half years, you disdain the industry and lament that the big-dollar days are gone(me, too). Yet, you've posted over 640 times on an major airline board.
Back when you first got your commercial, was a quarter mil a year as a UA capt your only motivation? Maybe you should have invested all that money into something a little more solid. I mean the industry could be rakin' in the dough, but we all are just a physical away from unemployment.
Money isn't my only motivation.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Good luck to all that decided to quit aviation for good. But one recommendation for you, If you stop smoking don't seat in the smoking section. So go lurk in the sites that theme your current trade.

Yea, exactly.

 

[Andy]

Good luck to all that decided to quit aviation for good. But one recommendation for you, If you stop smoking don't seat in the smoking section. So go lurk in the sites that theme your current trade.

Not so smart pilot, I am still on furlough from United. I will return when recalled AFTER a very long leave of absence. By then, my seniority should be enough to at least get me to a 767, vice the current slavery conditions that UAL pilots have to endure on the 737 and Airbus. I have no desire to work 90+ hrs/mo.

 

[Andy]

You haven't flown for almost four and a-half years, you disdain the industry and lament that the big-dollar days are gone(me, too). Yet, you've posted over 640 times on an major airline board.
Back when you first got your commercial, was a quarter mil a year as a UA capt your only motivation? Maybe you should have invested all that money into something a little more solid. I mean the industry could be rakin' in the dough, but we all are just a physical away from unemployment.
Money isn't my only motivation.

I don't disdain the industry but I do have a huge beef with those pilots who are willing to lower this profession down to starvation wages and crappy work rules.
When I got my commercial, I was already a military pilot. My primary motivations for wanting to fly commercial were a) the paycheck and b) the quality of life that the airline industry afforded. Both have seriously eroded over the last five years.
My total flight training expenses are somewhere short of $4K; I spent extra $ getting my CFI/ME to be more competitive when I left the military. Had I not gotten the CFI/ME, my total expenses would be south of $2K. Where would you suggest that I invest all that money?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

My primary motivations for wanting to fly commercial were a) the paycheck and b) the quality of life that the airline industry afforded. Both have seriously eroded over the last five years.

I don't remember receiving the UA ballot to vote on this TA's that the mainline pilots keep voting on giving away more and more flying. It seems that your beef is with your own UAMEC.
Enjoy your recurrent training after such a long period not turning a wheel and good luck

I spent extra $ getting my CFI/ME to be more competitive when I left the military. Had I not gotten the CFI/ME, my total expenses would be south of $2K. Where would you suggest that I invest all that money?

Therapy

 

[Gorilla]

My problem, and I'm sure it's echoed by others, is that our secondary skills have totally deteriorated. I have a degree in chemistry which I worked very hard for, but my knowledge is now that of a high school junior. It just trickled out my ears after 20 years of flying.

I could at one time been a programmer, but the coding field changes so rapidly, you must be involved continuosly or you'll never keep up with the technology.

It's very tough to maintain a second skill set that remains attractive to employers.

 

[Andy]

I don't remember receiving the UA ballot to vote on this TA's that the mainline pilots keep voting on giving away more and more flying. It seems that your beef is with your own UAMEC.
Enjoy your recurrent training after such a long period not turning a wheel and good luck.

Well, you fly for Pinnacle, right? I don't remember voting on any other airline's TAs either; why would you expect to be able to vote on the UAL TA?
As for UAMEC, I do have a beef with them giving away far more than was necessary.
Thanks for the kind words on my training; I look forward to it. About six years after being recalled (I'll be on LOA for a few years); I'm shooting for not turning a wheel for ten years. Piloting is not rocket science. You've indicated that in your posts about the green newhires at PNCL.

Therapy.

I'd say that by your resume (Flying since the 80s, 10.5K hrs, now working for PNCL), you've only got one skillset. If you've got a beef with me complaining about pilots who don't have the foresight to plan for contingencies, fine. I would say that my comments are aimed squarely at individuals such as yourself. I hope that you see the light before you turn 60 and are forced to retire - get off you a$$ and get another skillset or it'll be Walmart greeter for you.



Gorilla, I agree that it can be hard to keep up certain skillsets. IIRC, you're a fighter pilot, correct? You've got a security clearance; there are consultant jobs out there looking for ex-mil with clearances. If you look a while, you should be able to find one that'll hire you part time. It's ALWAYS good to have a safety net.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I'd say that by your resume (Flying since the 80s, 10.5K hrs, now working for PNCL), you've only got one skillset. If you've got a beef with me complaining about pilots who don't have the foresight to plan for contingencies, fine. I would say that my comments are aimed squarely at individuals such as yourself.

Again, just like you jump to the conclusion that the folks that went to Skybus had a checkered past. Just because they don't leave aviation in an attempt of solidarity with their ALPA brothers and sisters to raise the bar. You are making assumptions here as well.
Not everyone has your views about flying Andy.
I am at PCL by choice, just like you said. the QOL and salaries at just about all major carriers has degraded so much that I'm simply not interested to go make $25 or $30 an hour and be in reserve for years and starting to commute. I rather relegate flying to a paid hobby (Like I have it right now) and tend to my own company. So much so that I don't have my paperwork anywhere. I did the major carrier gig, I did the cargo, corporate. I get my flying kicks out of the CRJ just fine. Actually, a Piper Cub is more down my alley.

My primary motivations for wanting to fly commercial were a) the paycheck and b) the quality of life that the airline industry afforded. Both have seriously eroded over the last five years.

Some of us really like to fly, we didn't get into it just for the money as you did because I believe that this two reasons that you stated are the two wrong reasons, I like the fact that I'm not commuting, my schedules have a good amount of days off so I can do my wheeling and dealing and still get to fly while thay are paying me to do so. not much, like you said. nowhere near the amounts of money that you are doing with your refined side skills. but 90K a year for a side paid hobby is not bad.
About greeting people at Walmart. I own stock there, I can give you a letter of reference if you current gig goes bust.
I agree with you about having more than one skill set, I learned that when Eastern went under. Where you and I don't agree is in your branding and passing judgement of people without first hand knowledge.

Take care

 

[Andy]

but 90K a year for a side paid hobby is not bad.

You're making $90K/yr at Pinnacle? And it's a side hobby?
Here's the payscale:
http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/pinnacle.html

I'll cut you slack and max you out on the payscale @$82/hr as a 15 yr captain. That's 1100 hrs/yr for $90K. Either you make less than $90K or you are working your tail off. Either way, I question your credibility.

Where you and I don't agree is in your branding and passing judgement of people without first hand knowledge.

You are lowering the bar in this profession, just as scabs lower the bar. I don't know have first hand knowledge of scabs' stories and I don't care. There's always an excuse.

Some of us really like to fly, we didn't get into it just for the money as you did because I believe that this two reasons that you stated are the two wrong reasons

I didn't get in it just for the money. I got in it for the money AND quality of life. They may be the wrong reasons; I don't care. I used to be a starry eyed young buck who loved to fly, but commercial flying is boring and the thrill completely left me after 9/11 (it didn't help that I knew one of the FOs who got his throat slit). In order for me to fly commercially, I need to be compensated at a level that I am worth. I can only assume that you value your skills well below where I value mine.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

You'll need the pay for the Therapy. Take it ease sour puss