Virgin America hangs as its hedge fund owners get antsy

[cruxx@9]

Wow, this post got seriously hijacked. And I've wasted a good part of my day reading it.

I would just like to throw this out there, my dad worked for a real union, IBEW. I grew up union and believe in it 100%. He could go anywhere in the country that was hiring and walk on a job per seniority, and get paid at his level...journeyman or whatever. Can you do that with an ALPA card? Not so much. Does having an ALPA card even get you an interview at an ALPA carrier? I've read the "Flying the Line" books and it was a great read. It was nice to read about back in the days when ALPA was almost a true union.

I still have my ALPA card and pay the inactive dues or whatever it is. I don't do it just for the magazine either. (by the way, would that count to get on one of your "union jumpseats"?)

I agree that being organized has more than just pay benefits. I worked for an ALPA carrier and was very glad to be union, even if it would have been the basketweavers association! Because when Satan bought the airline I was at previous, we would have all been working for $12/hour flying the AirBus. They are still in negotiations and it will be forever...at least they still have a decent contract...because Satan owns them and that is why I quit. Even with a contract, which was great, it was still a sh*tbag place to work, again because satan owned it.

When Alaska says that VA is killing them with lower operating costs and the Alaska pilots need to make less money.....just curious what HE is getting paid? What his bonus is? Is he willing to take a pay cut? Because that my friends is where the fall of the entire country lies. Top Level Greed. When you have CEO's at airlines and other companies receiving $1 million+ dollar bonuses for running thier companies into the ground, you will never make anymore money.

Do I wish the pay and benies were better at VA? Of course, wouldn't everyone want more money and better benies. Do I think we are taking a sacrifice for the time being while the company grows, of course I think we are worth more for what we do. Do I think things will improve for the employees when our airline is more stable...I truely hope so. Do I think now is the time to try to organize...absolutely not. Timing is everything and it may not be ever here...we will see.

I know this. I am happy coming to work. I really enjoy working here. I feel we have a great managment team right now and so far the best place I've ever worked as a pilot. Do I keep my eyes open? Yes. Will this place stay around? Well, I wouldn't be here if I thought different but I am realistic and trying to start my second career because I can't see starting over again in aviation (as much as i love it).

I still get frustrated here as everyone does, and I don't always drink my company allotted Kool Aid servings. In fact there are days, I just kick over the whole glass. But a friend of mine put it perfectly the other day..."I came here to drink the Kool-Aid, because I was tired of drinking piss". And that is about right.


So bring on the scumbag remarks, but ya'll should really grow a set and tell it my face.

 

[Shrek]

Wow, this post got seriously hijacked. And I've wasted a good part of my day reading it.

I would just like to throw this out there, my dad worked for a real union, IBEW. I grew up union and believe in it 100%. He could go anywhere in the country that was hiring and walk on a job per seniority, and get paid at his level...journeyman or whatever. Can you do that with an ALPA card? Not so much. Does having an ALPA card even get you an interview at an ALPA carrier? I've read the "Flying the Line" books and it was a great read. It was nice to read about back in the days when ALPA was almost a true union.

I still have my ALPA card and pay the inactive dues or whatever it is. I don't do it just for the magazine either. (by the way, would that count to get on one of your "union jumpseats"?)

I agree that being organized has more than just pay benefits. I worked for an ALPA carrier and was very glad to be union, even if it would have been the basketweavers association! Because when Satan bought the airline I was at previous, we would have all been working for $12/hour flying the AirBus. They are still in negotiations and it will be forever...at least they still have a decent contract...because Satan owns them and that is why I quit. Even with a contract, which was great, it was still a sh*tbag place to work, again because satan owned it.

When Alaska says that VA is killing them with lower operating costs and the Alaska pilots need to make less money.....just curious what HE is getting paid? What his bonus is? Is he willing to take a pay cut? Because that my friends is where the fall of the entire country lies. Top Level Greed. When you have CEO's at airlines and other companies receiving $1 million+ dollar bonuses for running thier companies into the ground, you will never make anymore money.

Do I wish the pay and benies were better at VA? Of course, wouldn't everyone want more money and better benies. Do I think we are taking a sacrifice for the time being while the company grows, of course I think we are worth more for what we do. Do I think things will improve for the employees when our airline is more stable...I truely hope so. Do I think now is the time to try to organize...absolutely not. Timing is everything and it may not be ever here...we will see.

I know this. I am happy coming to work. I really enjoy working here. I feel we have a great managment team right now and so far the best place I've ever worked as a pilot. Do I keep my eyes open? Yes. Will this place stay around? Well, I wouldn't be here if I thought different but I am realistic and trying to start my second career because I can't see starting over again in aviation (as much as i love it).

I still get frustrated here as everyone does, and I don't always drink my company allotted Kool Aid servings. In fact there are days, I just kick over the whole glass. But a friend of mine put it perfectly the other day..."I came here to drink the Kool-Aid, because I was tired of drinking piss". And that is about right.


So bring on the scumbag remarks, but ya'll should really grow a set and tell it my face.

Baldanza says hi !! :beer:

 

[ualdriver]

Do I think we are taking a sacrifice for the time being while the company grows, of course

See post 150, #1

Basically you're saying that VA needs low pilot wages to help undercut the competition "for the time being while the company grows." And the downward spiral continues. If VA grows and becomes successful with $95/hr Airbus Captains, imagine what the NEXT generation of pilots are going to have to do in order to "sacrifice for the time being while their company grows," in order to undercut VA.

I know this. I am happy coming to work. I really enjoy working here. I feel we have a great managment team right now and so far the best place I've ever worked as a pilot.

See post 150, #4

Let me add that if most union pilots agreed to VA's pilot compensation package, we all would have a WONDERFUL relationship with our management as well. I mean, what management team wouldn't treat their pilot group really, really well when they willingly accept some of the lowest narrowbody compensation packages in the industry? Of course you have a great relationship with management- you all are "buying" that love. Trust me. To the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per year in gross earnings for some of your pilots.

"I came here to drink the Kool-Aid, because I was tired of drinking piss". And that is about right.

see post 150, #4 again

So bring on the scumbag remarks, but ya'll should really grow a set and tell it my face.

What exactly do you mean by this statement?

 

[cruxx@9]

.....

 

[LoveGun]

UALdriver -- you should change your name. Most UAL drivers I meet are a lot more open minded. You're giving your coworkers a bad name.

 

[ualdriver]

Oh, I understand now. For example, our County is growing very rapidly and they're building new schools and a large health provider is building a private hospital just south of me. So the employees working for those new institutions should expect wages significantly less than the going rate for their professions because said institutions are "starting in a hole."

Or if I was planning on opening a new accounting firm and needed CPA's, I should explain to them that although I know CPA's make $X dollars a year in pay and benefits, they should expect significantly less than the going rate because I just opened a new office.

Do you know what would happen in each of the above scenarios? The new school would have no professionals, the new hospital would have no doctors or nurses or therapists, and the new accounting firm would have empty cubicles. Pilots, such as yourself, are the only professionals that I know that are expected to subsidize a company's start up costs. And like I said earlier, as long as there are guys like you that can rationalize their decisions in such a manner, there will be plenty more VA's, Allegiant's, and Skybus's in our future. Don't expect the rest of us to be happy about it or accept rationalizations like the ones you and Daytona peddle on this forum.

And you missed my point about employee/management relationship. My point was that if the rest of us agreed to fly narrowbody aircraft at VA rates, we would have WONDERFUL relationships with our management teams, too. In your previous post you were telling us all how great it is to come to work. You BOUGHT that "great work environment" to the tune of thousands upon thousands of dollars in lost compensation and benefits.

 

[ualdriver]

UALdriver -- you should change your name. Most UAL drivers I meet are a lot more open minded. You're giving your coworkers a bad name.

More open minded about what lovegun? Do you honestly think that the average UAL pilot is happy about Virgin America pilots undercutting our already crappy wages and benefits in the same exact aircraft that we fly? Setting up shop in one of our major hubs and trashing yields in an environment when AIRFARES ARE ALREADY LOW ENOUGH? I mean, seriously. Do you really believe that? We start contract negotiations next month. Do you think VA wages will add contructively to my negotiator's argument that we think our A320 guys are underpaid?

 

[joevollers]

I wish new hires could make more at VA, but as it sits right now, they will gross approx 99000 for their first two years, if they do not upgrade.

Unfortunately, that bar is being lowered by UAL newbies grossing 84000.

 

[cruxx@9]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxx@9
Do I think we are taking a sacrifice for the time being while the company grows, of course

See post 150, #1

Basically you're saying that VA needs low pilot wages to help undercut the competition "for the time being while the company grows." And the downward spiral continues. If VA grows and becomes successful with $95/hr Airbus Captains, imagine what the NEXT generation of pilots are going to have to do in order to "sacrifice for the time being while their company grows," in order to undercut VA.

[FONT=&quot]OR...since any new airline has to purchase EVERYTHING from computers to airplanes to toilet paper from scratch...there is a bit of a hole to start in. Unlike an established carrier that can use operating revenue (or pilot pay cuts) to invest in their airline with snazzy new paint jobs or CEO bonuses or however they choose to spend that money.

The next generation of pilots will have us to thank for getting the bird off the ground. If it comes to VA becoming stable and compensation has not come up to par...then I guess things will get ugly here too. We will cross that bridge when we get there.

[/FONT]

Originally Posted by cruxx@9
I know this. I am happy coming to work. I really enjoy working here. I feel we have a great managment team right now and so far the best place I've ever worked as a pilot.
See post 150, #4

Let me add that if most union pilots agreed to VA's pilot compensation package, we all would have a WONDERFUL relationship with our management as well. I mean, what management team wouldn't treat their pilot group really, really well when they willingly accept some of the lowest narrowbody compensation packages in the industry? Of course you have a great relationship with management- you all are "buying" that love. Trust me. To the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per year in gross earnings for some of your pilots.

[FONT=&quot]
Hmmmm....SWA is union right? And they have the highest narrowbody compensation package. From what I understand they have a fairly good relationship with management/labor.

Just because you work for Satan's Spawn doesn't mean every management team is f*cked up. Your management team wouldn't be happy with you making $10/hour...they are true SOB's and that's all there is too it.


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[cruxx@9]

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