Virgin America Approved

[Fly4hire]

I would encourage every ALPA pilot to deny employees at these (VA, Skybus)carriers the JS even if they do manage to get reciprocal negotiated. I don't give a r@#$% if they ever worked for an ALPA carrier in a previous life. You will be giving them a ride to work to slit your throat, and you'll see it come back to haunt you the next time your company comes looking for concessions and uses them in the contract comparison. JB redux, unfortunately that pig has already left the stall.

http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news...8307909_RTRIDST_0_VIRGIN-AMERICA-UPDATE-1.XML

WASHINGTON, May 18 (Reuters) - The U.S. Transportation Department said on Friday that Virgin America Airlines can begin service once it receives the necessary safety clearance, concluding a stormy 18-month review of its ties to British entrepreneur Richard Branson.

Agency officials granted final approval of Virgin America's economic fitness application, which was initially rejected, after regulators determined the company would satisfy a law that restricts control of domestic airlines to U.S. citizens.

To win approval on appeal, Virgin America had to reduce its exposure to overseas interests, including Branson's Virgin Group, which runs British-based Virgin Atlantic Airlines (VA.UL: Quote, Profile , Research).


Virgin America, a San Francisco-based low-cost start-up, also plans to replace its chief executive, Fred Reid. His association with foreign investors raised concern among transportation officials about possible overseas influence in the company's operations.

Virgin America said in a statement that Reid, a veteran executive at major U.S. and international carriers, would stay on for six months.
The airline plans a mid-summer launch with flights between San Francisco and New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.

The last regulatory hurdle for the carrier is to obtain safety permits from the Federal Aviation Administration, which is expected.

 

[westward]

This I know.

In a life of playing many different sports, I always knew I had the competition beaten when they would resort to underhanded tricks.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I would encourage every ALPA pilot to deny employees at these (VA, Skybus)carriers the JS even if they do manage to get reciprocal negotiated. .

I think it's up to ALPA national at this point.


(No, seriously.)

 

[Fly4hire]

I think it's up to ALPA national at this point.


(No, seriously.)

Actually it's up to the indivudual Captain to grant permission, even if they have an agreement.

 

[AA717driver]

Fly4hire--You do not use the jumpseat as an instrument of war. It has never been used as such and should not.

I assume you kick JB, AirTran and Frontier people off the jumpseat, too? I mean, at one time they were low paying, bottom feeders.

The goal should be to try to encourage them to unionize (in house, of course since ALPA has lost it's mojo) in order to better their working conditions.

If you're going to deny them the jumpseat, then deny Pinacle, Eagle, Comair--EVERYONE flying jet airliners for less than industry standard. TC

 

[TWA Dude]

What TC said. The jumpseat is not a weapon. The only pilots who should be denied jumpseats are SCA Bs. (And I don't mean anybody's definition of the day, but an actual strikebreaker.)

 

[Cappy]

What TC said. The jumpseat is not a weapon. The only pilots who should be denied jumpseats are SCA Bs. (And I don't mean anybody's definition of the day, but an actual strikebreaker.)

You are so right, TWA Dude. I have only once in fifteen years actually denied the JS to anyone. The guy was a UAL SCAB out of Dayton, OH.

If any of you are really all that concerned about Virgin and Airtran, why haven't you been raising hell about the rates at Continental or Polar? What about Kallitta or Maxjet? Check out Allegiant at $61/hr for an MD80 Captain? How about Midwest at $81/hr for MD-80 Captain? TWA Dude is right...if you are going to deny the JS to virgin or Skybus, you might as well be consistent and deny to any pilot that works at a company with a pay scale less than yours. It's a wonderfully devisive tactic that will stand to further alienate ALPA from up and coming LCC's.

My god, please go to AirlinePilotCentral and check out the rates at some of the "established" carriers. They aren't much to get excited about.


I'm all for protecting the JS from scabs. Just make sure that they really are!

 

[Ty Webb]

It would be humorous (and sad) to see a $137./hr NWA A320 Capt deny the jumpseat to a $152/hr 12th yr AirTran CA for "lowering the bar". . . . . .

There is always some braying jackass pilot in every group.

 

[Fly4hire]

It would be humorous (and sad) to see a $137./hr NWA A320 Capt deny the jumpseat to a $152/hr 12th yr AirTran CA for .

No one is talking AT or the Feeds that fly at industry rates. If you don't see the issue with a group of pilots flying 130 seat jets at 70 seat wages I don't know what to tell you. Allegient or Midwest (and AT) are niche players. Skybus and VA are a lower form of JB and are out to change the industry paradigm just as JB did, but another order of magnitude lower. For all the chest thumping about how JB or AT pays more than legacies now, that was not the case before JB helped shift the curve. As to JS wars, no I don't advocate that as normal policy. I also firmly believe that the JS is a negotiated privilege, not a birthright. I have heard LCC pilots talk with glee about they are going to put XYZ legacy out of business with their all too trendy wave of the future airline. Why should we give them a ride to work to accomplish that goal?

 

[ualdriver]

No one is talking AT or the Feeds that fly at industry rates. If you don't see the issue with a group of pilots flying 130 seat jets at 70 seat wages I don't know what to tell you. Allegient or Midwest (and AT) are niche players. Skybus and VA are a lower form of JB and are out to change the industry paradigm just as JB did, but another order of magnitude lower. For all the chest thumping about how JB or AT pays more than legacies now, that was not the case before JB helped shift the curve. As to JS wars, no I don't advocate that as normal policy. I also firmly believe that the JS is a negotiated privilege, not a birthright. I have heard LCC pilots talk with glee about they are going to put XYZ legacy out of business with their all too trendy wave of the future airline. Why should we give them a ride to work to accomplish that goal?

I agree with you Fly4hire to a point. I would just say any non-union carrier should not be riding on a union carrier's jumpseat. I say that for two reasons. One, there will always be a guy like the posters above that say, "Your union airline pays X and mine pays Y so therefore you're a bottom feeder." With X and Y being extremely difficult to even define unless you're sitting in front of a computer with a few contract experts to value each guy's contract. I'm not worried about an airline, anyway, that's within a few percentage points of my compensation. It's the guys like Skybus that undercut us by 50%(!) that are flagrant, but I digress. Two, even if it is a union carrier undercutting me, at least I know there will probably be some attempt as an organization to get their wages up to where they should be. You can't say that for a non-union airline like JetBlue, for example, who has had years to do so but hasn't.

It's ridiculous to me that my carrier with our large presence in SFO, for example, will probably be getting most of these Virgin guys to work (can't live in SFO for 90K/year) so they can use their pathetically low, non-union wages to undercut our fares out of SFO! It's like driving the thief to the ATM with you so he doesn't have to go out of his way to rob you.