violation

[Alamanach]

Russian, on page 1 of this thread, you wrote:

The NASA form is to be used as a self-disclosure form for pilot error. If the pilot has made no error, then the pilot should not fill out a NASA form.

And on page 4 you wrote:

It is not for pilot error. It is for safety related issues, much like a safety hotline.

These statements appear to be contradictory. Can you clarify?

 

[The_Russian]

A pilot should self-disclose for a safety related pilot error only. Self-disclosing for deliberate pilot error is not allowed, and can lead to certificate action.

 

[Alamanach]

OK, that makes sense. One other question-- avbug's opinion seems to be that these reports can (and should) be used to report safety issues of any kind, even things that the pilot might not have had much direct involvement with. That's a lot broader than a safety-related pilot error, so presumably you disagree. If I identify a safety issue that doesn't involve any error on my part, how should I go about bringing it to people's attention?

 

[AC560]

Self-disclosing for deliberate pilot error is not allowed, and can lead to certificate action.

I think you should stop while you are behind. The only reports which they can refer to an outside source without de-identification are those which contain criminal activities (referred to DOJ) or accidents (referred to NTSB and FAA). Any other release will be de-identified prior to release.

 

[The_Russian]

OK, that makes sense. One other question-- avbug's opinion seems to be that these reports can (and should) be used to report safety issues of any kind, even things that the pilot might not have had much direct involvement with. That's a lot broader than a safety-related pilot error, so presumably you disagree. If I identify a safety issue that doesn't involve any error on my part, how should I go about bringing it to people's attention?

Actually, I totally agree. The ASRS system is also to be used to report aviation safety related issues not related to the pilot or pilot error.

All I am saying is that it is not a "get out of jail free" card. And, that certificate action can be taken if criminal neglect is found.

 

[The_Russian]

I think you should stop while you are behind. The only reports which they can refer to an outside source without de-identification are those which contain criminal activities (referred to DOJ) or accidents (referred to NTSB and FAA). Any other release will be de-identified prior to release.

You don't think the criminal neglect can be found concerning an issue of deliberate pilot error?

I am not sure that you are reading what I am writing. Nor do I think that you se the loophole in the program.

 

[AC560]

I am not sure that you are reading what I am writing.

No I am reading exactly what you have written "Self-disclosing for deliberate pilot error is not allowed, and can lead to certificate action." That is factually untrue and statements like that cause people to mistrust the program.

I gave you the two instances where your report and identity can be released (and who it can be released to).

 

[Alamanach]

...The ASRS system is also to be used to report aviation safety related issues not related to the pilot or pilot error.

All I am saying is that it is not a "get out of jail free" card. And, that certificate action can be taken if criminal neglect is found.

OK, so the ASRS system is used to report safety issues, pilot error or no. I'm with you there, but I lose you when we consider this particular case. In the post that started this thread, we had a pilot get into a situation where ATC couldn't distinguish between him and some other plane. I'm just a lowly PPL, but that sounds like a safety issue to me.

Why, then, shouldn't the pilot submit an ASRS? The 'criminal neglect' thing can't be a problem; he hadn't actually commited a violation.

 

[The_Russian]

No I am reading exactly what you have written "Self-disclosing for deliberate pilot error is not allowed, and can lead to certificate action." That is factually untrue and statements like that cause people to mistrust the program.

I gave you the two instances where your report and identity can be released (and who it can be released to).

Deliberate:
Main Entry: 2de·lib·er·ate
Pronunciation: di-'li-b&-r&t, -'lib-r&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin deliberatus, past participle of deliberare to consider carefully, perhaps alteration of *delibrare, from de- + libra scale, pound
1 : characterized by or resulting from careful and thorough consideration <a deliberate decision>
2 : characterized by awareness of the consequences <deliberate falsehood>
3 : slow, unhurried, and steady as though allowing time for decision on each individual action involved <a deliberate pace>

 

[The_Russian]

OK, so the ASRS system is used to report safety issues, pilot error or no. I'm with you there, but I lose you when we consider this particular case. In the post that started this thread, we had a pilot get into a situation where ATC couldn't distinguish between him and some other plane. I'm just a lowly PPL, but that sounds like a safety issue to me.

Why, then, shouldn't the pilot submit an ASRS? The 'criminal neglect' thing can't be a problem; he hadn't actually commited a violation.

I believe that the pilot should not file the ASRS report due to the fact that he knows he was not the sought pilot. If he did not make a deviation due to safety, then he should not file. He knows, and explained to the controlling agency, that it was not him. If it truly was him, and he was sure about it. A filing of a ASRS report would be applicable due to an accidental deviation into class B.

Now, say he caused a major traffic deviation. The FAA could find criminal neglect on the pilot if the passengers on the deviating plane were injured in the manuever. And, the ASRS system will not be able to protect him. Of course, this is all hypothetical. But, it could happen.

If the FAA would like to press the issue further, he would recieve a letter of investigation with or without filing to the ASRS system. If the FAA can prove that the said pilot knew better, the FAA can seek certificate action under criminal charges.

On another note, his filing fill falsify the statistics. This would be due to a deviation filed that was not committed.