Video from CNBC-Santulli CEO NetJets

[amaineiac]

The model is dead, and always has been.

The objective was to get to get to a "critical mass" and they have achieved it, but they still lose money.

Netjets has made money 18 months out of their 20 years of their life.

RTS is a very smart guy, but it simply doesn't work.

Busines is down by 25% and that means they have to cut costs by the same amount. Do the math and that tells how many crewmembers have to go.

If the business model doesn't work, wouldn't you have to cut all the crewmembers, not just 25%?

Crawl back under your bridge little troll.

 

[pilot772]

jpeace,

You're understandably incredibly stressed about the whole situation.

But if you're planning on coming back and raising hell for some perceived injustice visited upon you by our pilots, then perhaps you should turn your 3-year LTLOA into a more permanent situation.

Who are you gonna raise hell with? You going to poll every pilot in the company to find out who participated and who didn't?

I'm doing my part. Others are too. In the end though, it's not the PILOTS who would be putting you on the street. The pilots (even the ones who don't participate) didn't cause the economy to tank in a big way. The pilots didn't cause NJ's management to overhire in anticipation of aircraft that aren't showing up now. The pilots aren't selling back shares of these jets.

What the pilots you're hating so much DID do is vote in not one, but TWO contracts that gave the junior folks the biggest gains. The pilots (through union leadership) have created an unprecedented package to help ease a little of the pain for the folks who would otherwise have ZERO options and simply be out on the street with a bunch of their brethren.

You aren't being "forced" to do anything. Don't take any LOA and just accept the furlough. After all, isn't that the standard of how it's pretty much always been done everywhere else?

I truly am sorry that your choice is leave with a little pay and benefits, or leave with nothing. I am sincere in this sentiment. The common thread between the two is that you have to leave. But at least you have some choice.

But if you're planning on coming back here and acting like a total jerk, then perhaps you weren't a good fit here to begin with.

Here is the problem, there are people on the union board and the road saying that they don't want to do anything because "nothing is in it for them" that is the attitude I believe Jpeace is referring to. The company has set this up perfectly for themselves. Offer voluntary measures and when they don't work junior folks can blame the senior ones, thus dividing the pilot group. We have seen this kind of thing happen at most of the major airlines. Senior pilots selling the junior ones down the river. While I don't believe this is happening at NJA, and am very grateful for everyones participataion. IF a large number are sent to the streets for 3 years many will come back with the attitude of: bitterness, pissed, wanting to get theirs, etc and perhaps feeling that they were sold down the river. Unfortunately thats just human nature, especially with many mid to high seniority folks both on the boards and on the road saying I'm not doing anything cause "whats in it for me?" If the level of participation goes up dramatically in the last week and furloughs are averted you will see perhaps the strongest most unified union possible heading into contract negotiations in 2015-2016. If the other end of the spectrum happens who knows.

 

[realityman]

pilot772,

You make some very good and well thought out points. However, I've been perusing the union boards, and I haven't seen one single post from anyone saying they wouldn't participate because "what's in it for me?". Could you PM me with the specific threads on our message boards where folks are saying this?

As for what's said on the road, I haven't heard much of anything. If we do have pilots who are ruminating out loud about driving their boat or how they're going to furnish their new $600K home, then that is most definitely in bad form right now!

I agree with you that this whole JPMC thing is creating some division right now, however I do question your belief that management did this for that exact purpose. Mainly because it was OUR UNION who helped put this together and guided management towards a friendlier version of simply putting folks on the street. I think this whole thing was put together not to divide, but to hopefully save as many jobs as possible, and to make the jobs not saved at least a tad bit better than simply "goodbye, good luck, see ya in a few years maybe".

And are you SURE it's mainly senior folks who aren't participating? How do you know that the majority of the 900 pilots not participating aren't, in fact, in the bottom half of the seniority list? After all, they make less, so probably have less to give up, and may therefore be more inclined not to participate. Although you probably didn't intend to do it, you're already scapegoating the senior folks. All that talk about how it's typical for the senior folks to sell the junior folks down the river. That's why I wonder exactly who jpeace plans to raise hell with when he comes back. Which demographic, in his eyes, is most responsible for his furlough?

Anyway, I hope everyone comes out of this okay. Not a good time for anyone.

 

[172driver]

I totally agree with jpeace and pilot 772. I see far less participation than I expected and it's very disappointing.

The major disappointment to me is that NJASAP didn't even try to convince anyone to help out. The package was presented as "do what's good for you" and not "please do whatever you can to help your junior brothers." I know not everybody can help, but I think a lot of people got the "do what's best for you" message and decided to do just that. I think this pilot group would have sacrificed a lot more if they were asked to do so by their leadership.

 

[rigger]

Gotta say I am a bit surprised at the way this thread went. After reading it all, it has reinforced the old joke pilots tell about how you could give a pilot something for free and he would still complain about something to do with the gift!

NetJets folks wether you believe it or not you have been given a huge gift.... I fully realize you have earned it and have paid the dues required to get to this point your Union has done a great job and your MEC is top notch. But come on, the flying industry is in turmoil, more pilot's are on the street right now then were after 911, the frac industry is not the same business model as it was 12 months ago, Aircraft makers are laying off in the thousands, the used A/C market has never been this saturated with aircraft and your complaining that some of your brothers and sisters are being forced to make a choice (actually many options to make a choice) to stay with the company or go for a long while, or go for a little while, or leave entirely and take a hunk of money......Youll get insurance, recall rights, etc etc. WHAT A GREAT EARNED GIFT. It was going to happen anyway based on the market and the Company and Union got together and made lemonade..... too sour for some too sweet for others, just right for others......but it was still made for you all.

I am a furloughed Shares guy there are 38 of us on the street 10 more will go the end of June. 24 went in December not one of us had a choice, the company originally offered a buy out....1 month pay for every year or service (max 8 years) Something, but not enough to really make a huge differance in your life. We had 6 takers, this was a god send for 6 guys on the bottom. The second time around no offer for a LOA, or a buyout, or reduced pay for all or?????? anything else it was just cut those 48! Infact since this was announced 3 senior pilots have left the company were the furloughs reduced by 3???? not that anyone can determine but we can't get an answer.....

At least you have some lemonade....stop making your own coolaid and start drinking some of your hard won lemonade!!! This is what you all worked so hard to get, sure some of the Old senior guys should get the heck out, but so too should some of the snot nosed young guys. Sure some folks will drive the new boat and some folks will not pay their bills all because of this......it's the way it is!!!

I only wish we 48 guys had the choice of what kind of lemonade we could drink!! Maybe our guys will get the cards sent in now???? Maybe not....but it is the way it is....IT"S AVIATION STUPID!!!!!

O ya As usual Netjets wife still gets it, thanks for all the support and thanks to your hubby for working so hard for the industry!,

 

[pilot772]

realityman check your pm's

 

[gunfyter]

H If the level of participation goes up dramatically in the last week and furloughs are averted you will see perhaps the strongest most unified union possible heading into contract negotiations in 2015-2016. If the other end of the spectrum happens who knows.

Contract negotiations will be in 2011/2012, not 2015/16....

At which time the 18 day schedule will be History.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Contract negotiations will be in 2011/2012, not 2015/16....

At which time the 18 day schedule will be History.

He's going to meet all three benchmarks for the three year extension. You don't think he'll extend it?

 

[jpeace02]

Fellas/ladies,

These posts have been so respectfull, except for mine of course, that I forgot I was on flightinfo.

I had a few drinks last night and I'm stressed to say the least. I don't mean to offend anybody but I do stand by my questions as to why we still have 30% not doing anything, meaning opting in.

NetJets is one helluva a place to work and I hope to retire here but if I end up getting furloughed or forced into a LTLOA it will probably just turn into 'one of those airlines I use to work for.'

It's an emotional issue and we should treat it like a business decesion, my bad.

Sincerely,

jpeace

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Fellas/ladies,

These posts have been so respectfull, except for mine of course, that I forgot I was on flightinfo.

I had a few drinks last night and I'm stressed to say the least. I don't mean to offend anybody but I do stand by my questions as to why we still have 30% not doing anything, meaning opting in.

NetJets is one helluva a place to work and I hope to retire here but if I end up getting furloughed or forced into a LTLOA it will probably just turn into 'one of those airlines I use to work for.'

It's an emotional issue and we should treat it like a business decesion, my bad.

Sincerely,

jpeace

No problem Jpeace. I'm 158 from the bottom and I feel your pain. I too have heard and seen the things you speak of on the road... so maybe it was bad taste to air the dirty laundry on FI, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Realityman is right that it is impossible to know where the greatest concentration of "opt-outers" is on the list, in the end it doesn't really matter. 900 of us have decided we can't or won't help for whatever reason. That is very dissapointing.

I will say though that 100% of the indviduals that have personally told me that they are opting out are very senior pilots with numbers of 1500 and above.. and I have asked quite a few. The reason is always the same; that they were here when they made nothing and they are not ok with losing the payout they get from their unused sick/PTO days or whatever. Some of them would be losing a fat lump sum and are unwilling to give it up. That's just my experience and I HOPE that it is an isolated one but from I hear from you and others it isn't so much.

Good luck to everybody and thanks to all that have done at least something to help out!