VFR on TOP

[zbwmy]

I can't actually find the answer I'm looking for in the FAA 7110.65, so I have come to the experts.

VFR on Top at 17500. Pilot says, "Center request decent into XYZ". As a pilot, are you expecting a cardinal altitude assigned, say 11000? Do you think a decent clearance is necessary to leave VFR on Top? Are you expecting IFR separation of 1000 feet from other traffic?

My take is even though VFR on Top is an IFR clearance, when a pilot begins a decent from cruise to destination, he is VFR and does not need a ATC clearance.

What would the scenario be if you were VFR on Top and there was a solid layer between your altitude and your intended destination?

 

[nosehair]

VFR on Top at 17500. Pilot says, "Center request decent into XYZ". As a pilot, are you expecting a cardinal altitude assigned, say 11000? Do you think a decent clearance is necessary to leave VFR on Top?

AIM 4-4-7 IFR on Top: e.3. Comply with instrument flight rules that are applicable to this flight; i.e., minimum IFR altitudes, position reporting, radio comm, course to be flown, adherence to ATC clearance, etc.

VFR on top means you can select any VFR altitude above, between, or below layers as long as you are maintaining VFR cloud clearance and visibility, but only down to minimum IFR altitude for your route.

To me, as soon as you request a descent, you are asking for the lowest IFR altitude and approach into your destination.

 

[gern_blanston]

If you can remain 'on top', and you haven't been told to remain there for some reason, you just tell center, that you're beginning your on-top decent, leaving 17,500. You can then level off at any appropriate on-top altitude. If there's weather below, you have to mantain VFR cloud clearance and you'll need a 'hard' altitude assigned before you get into IMC. If you're close to the cloud tops at your cruise altitude, you'll want to request a hard lower altitude when you're ready to begin your descent.

 

[Singlecoil]

I second what nosehair and gern said. If you have layers beneath you, just tell ATC that you need an "IFR descent". They'll know what you mean.

 

[zbwmy]

I agree that asking for an "IFR decent" when on top of clouds is quite clear.

If however you can maintain clear of clouds for your decent, do you feel it is necessary to ask ATC for a "decent"?

 

[mattpilot]

If however you can maintain clear of clouds for your decent, do you feel it is necessary to ask ATC for a "decent"?

No.



hmmm...... (message otherwise to short )

 

[Singlecoil]

No you don't ask them for a descent in the clear, you tell them you are descending.

 

[NoahWerka]

Don't you have to be on an IFR Flight plan to be VFR on top? VFR over the top is a VFR flight. Correct?

 

[gern_blanston]

Right.
VFR on top is an IFR clearance.
VFR over the top is VFR.

 

[wxman13]

If it's clear below and you're VFR on top, isn't the lowest you can descend the MEA for the route, unless you cancel IFR or get an approach clearance?

 

[sky37d]

Right.
VFR on top is an IFR clearance.
VFR over the top is VFR.

Right.

 

[Singlecoil]

If it's clear below and you're VFR on top, isn't the lowest you can descend the MEA for the route, unless you cancel IFR or get an approach clearance?

True. One trick if you are on an airway is to request direct. You're still on the same route (if you requested direct to the VOR you were already navigating to) but now the MEA doesn't apply. Only the minimum IFR altitude (1000 non-mountainous, 2000 mountainous) applies so that might get you down lower than the MEA.

You might hear a freight hauler taxiing out on a clear day say, "Request Direct and On-Top at 7500, we're on top at this time." This will get them released more quickly, let the pilot pick the enroute altitude and let the controller know that he won't have to provide any extra instructions along the lines of, "If non on-top by 9000, maintain 9000." You've already told him you are on-top sitting on the ground.