Verifying the flightplan with the legs page

[LazyLightnin']

Holy crap, John. Does your wife ever get to see you when you're not playing "not in my day" or "I tell my FO's" on the internet? Get off flightinfo and facebook and go act like normal grandparents.

 

[777forever]

I couldn't agree more that it was a waste of breath. Some will never hear.

Our latest spate of lateral deviations had nothing to do with verifying leg by leg. It had to do with not verifying it at ALL, not the method of verification. The training dept changed it because it was quicker/easier to verify it on the flight plan page. Maybe crews will do it if theres an easier way.

Please just ALLOW those loser Captains in your seat to do it the way they feel most comfortable and be glad they have the logic to verify it at all. You sure seem to want to second guess ALOT of your Captains methods. (autopilot deferral thread)

I hope you upgrade soon, you can show everybody what a true aviator looks like, but you won't believe some of the FO's you'll have to fly with. Good luck.

I'm done. Time for a single malt

Are you in the training department because your claim of why the flightplan verification procedure was changed is COMPLETELY different from everyone I've talked to. The claim that it was done solely because it was easier so that more crew members would do it is beyond rediculous. Common sense tells you if your clearance reroutes you the legs page is useless. The procedure was changed because the flightplan page is flat out better method of verification that just happens to be faster. Common issue is your clearance changing, and while loading the new clearance someone forgets to put the jet or victor airway in and just has a direct to in between fixes. Will the legs page help you catch that if that is your sole method of verification?

You seem to jump to conclusions a lot. The autopilot MEL thread involved a hypothetical situation that was not based off any real life event. I started that thread because I knew it would be a pretty good discussion for me and many others to learn from, which it sure was. Same thing with this thread. asayankee and others who thought that the fms flightplan page doesn't show discontinuities when the legs page does now know that is false.

Great points have been made that the legs page is still an excellent tool for flightplan verification, but should supplement the flightplan page and not be the sole source of verification.

 

[DrewBlows]

You never answered my question...Have you read every book from cover to cover?

I tell my FO's, I don't care how you do it as long as we don't die, get fired, or violated in that order...Technique doesn't interest me...

Have you ever violated "sterile cockpit"? How about speeding on the highway? I bet you have ignored rules or laws you don't agree with...

Regarding the company vs. the pilot to "decide how much room for technique", as I said, I don't care about "technique", but it is my cockpit and not the companies....I will go home at the end of the day, and some of these stupid procedures make things more dangerous....Sorry for being politically incorrect, but I like to call a spade a spade.....

Of course I am not a perfect pilot, but I at least attempt to do things the way my company wants and pays me to do. When I have a question about how something is supposed to b3done or someone shows me something that I am doing wrong I look it up and correct it. If I have a question or disagreement about how a procedure works I solicate an explanation. One thing I don't do is make up my own procedure, because when I was a First Officer I hated flying with unpredictable Captains. Most non-standard guys were just annoying, a few were potentially unsafe.

You are not calling "a spade a spade," you are justifying you non-standard behavior.

 

[the palm]

It should not be a First Officer's job to learn each Captain's individual "procedures," it should be each pilot's responsibility to know the book and do things as written.

Actually, you need to do both. Just sayin'.

 

[JustaNumber]

You never answered my question...Have you read every book from cover to cover?

I tell my FO's, I don't care how you do it as long as we don't die, get fired, or violated in that order...Technique doesn't interest me...

I can't believe you haven't read the FOM and OM from cover to cover. (I really hope everyone here has, especially captains). How are you going to keep from getting violated if you don't know how they can violate you? I think you haven't heard enough stories of jumpseaters (FAA and otherwise) blowing the whistle on some non-standard procedure, leading to some form of violation. Sure it's B.S., but that's the game we're playing, so might as well play to win. Plus it does make it easier on FOs knowing what to expect.

Have you guys read the email on the 2010 LOSA report? Turns out we did pretty well, but one thing that stuck out was a fairly significant list of what were termed intentional procedural violations. As in, if it's in the book one way and you did it another, it was intentional. I would look for some upcoming changes soon to address this, so it's time to start upping our games. (BTW, I'm not a perfect pilot by any means, but I do keep trying to become more standard).