Vacating altitudes

[ksu_aviator]

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/instrument_procedures_handbook/media/CH 03a.pdf

Page 19 has the information you obviously need to brush up on.

 

[Hook 'Em Horns]

As someone already said, it probably will never be an issue unless you are involved in an incident and whther or not you reported vacating an altitude is deemed to be a factor.

I can't find in 5-3-3 where it states you should not make the report if you think it will add to frequency congestion.

 

[avbug]

KSU,

You just chat yourself up a storm, block the frequencies, look for traffic with your radio and report your altitude every three feet, it it makes you feel better.

I'm very familiar with the information. You go ahead and cite the regulation that requires these reports, while you're at it. Can you find such a regulation?

I'd love to crack a book, but I'm in the MIDDLE OF THE DESERT some distance from the middle of nowhere...and can only assure you that I'll sleep better in my compound knowing you're out there somewhere reporting every little altitude change.

Safety first, courtesy second, or even a distant third. Or in your own case, blind obedience to obscurity, and be-all damned with the rest, right? Ever hear of common sense?

One should report altitude changes when one can, when the frequency isn't congested, and when it's not patently clear that you're changing altitudes.

Where's your basis in writing from an authoritative source that ATC fears and distrusts Mode C? Still looking for that one. You're wrong, of course, but it was a good effort.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

KSU

While I agree with you, advisory is required any time you change assigned altitudes, this quote

Do not draw a horizontal line through an
altitude being vacated until after the aircraft has
reported or is observed (valid Mode C) leaving the
altitude.

from the ATC handbook kind of disproves your point about ATC not trusting Mode C.

 

[Booker]

While I agree with you, advisory is required any time you change assigned altitudes, this quote from the ATC handbook kind of disproves your point about ATC not trusting Mode C.

Hey dude; what's up? I don't know about any of that, but my FOM says I have to make "vacation" reports, nothing optional about it. And who am I to disobey the FOM?

This one time back at our old job, we got a PD descent on the captain's leg. I made an advisory vacating call to FLO approach (I think), and the ensuing cockpit conversation was thus:

Captain: "Is that a required report?"

Me: "No. Are you a check airman?"

OK, well, that's what I should have said. You know how some of those guys were.

Shoot me a PM sometime.

 

[ksu_aviator]

KSU,

You just chat yourself up a storm, block the frequencies, look for traffic with your radio and report your altitude every three feet, it it makes you feel better.

I'm very familiar with the information. You go ahead and cite the regulation that requires these reports, while you're at it. Can you find such a regulation?

I'd love to crack a book, but I'm in the MIDDLE OF THE DESERT some distance from the middle of nowhere...and can only assure you that I'll sleep better in my compound knowing you're out there somewhere reporting every little altitude change.

Safety first, courtesy second, or even a distant third. Or in your own case, blind obedience to obscurity, and be-all danged with the rest, right? Ever hear of common sense?

One should report altitude changes when one can, when the frequency isn't congested, and when it's not patently clear that you're changing altitudes.

Where's your basis in writing from an authoritative source that ATC fears and distrusts Mode C? Still looking for that one. You're wrong, of course, but it was a good effort.

If Mode C is so reliable, why would we ever check in with our altitude? If it was reliable, than all we would need to do is call in with our call sign...right?

I've never heard a frequency so congested that I couldn't get in a 1 second radio call for vacating an altitude.

BTW...learn how to read, I posted exactly where the implied distrust of Mode C is. If you don't like it, too bad, you are just wrong....again.

 

[ksu_aviator]

KSU

While I agree with you, advisory is required any time you change assigned altitudes, this quote



from the ATC handbook kind of disproves your point about ATC not trusting Mode C.

Read the whole thing above.

 

[avbug]

I've never heard a frequency so congested that I couldn't get in a 1 second radio call for vacating an altitude.

You may be forgiven for and need not apologize for your inexperience.

BTW...learn how to read, I posted exactly where the implied distrust of Mode C is. If you don't like it, too bad, you are just wrong....again.

You make wild assumptions, but see what you wish....and cannot in any way show any evidence, implied or otherwise, that the "FAA does not trust Mode C."

Especially as it is the FAA that mandates it. You're a smart one.

 

[Say Again Over]

It does not state anywhere in the 7110.65 that aircraft must state their assigned altitude on every freq check in. The first Center sector checks the mode C. It seems all American pilots report altitude climbing, decending, level, on every check in. Only about half the foreingers do. It sounds odd when you only hear "Boston Center AZA692". I insisted they had to state their altitude, but looked it up and cannot find it.
by zbwmy

From 7110.65

5-2-18. ALTITUDE CONFIRMATION- MODE C
Request a pilot to confirm assigned altitude on initial contact unless:
NOTE-
For the purpose of this paragraph, "initial contact" means a pilot's first radio contact with each sector/position.
a. The pilot states the assigned altitude, or
b. You assign a new altitude to a climbing or a descending aircraft, or
c. The Mode C readout is valid and indicates that the aircraft is established at the assigned altitude, or
d. TERMINAL. The aircraft was transferred to you from another sector/position within your facility (intrafacility).

zbwmy, is this what you were looking for?

 

[avbug]

Request a pilot to confirm assigned altitude on initial contact unless: ...The Mode C readout is valid and indicates that the aircraft is established at the assigned altitude...

Golly gee whiz, miss martha! Does this mean that the FAA might just have a smidgen of confidence in Mode C, rather than being in mortal fear of it's deep-seeded pitfalls as KSU might have us believe? Who'da thunk it?

Stop the presses! Maybe, just maybe, the ATC system doesn't rely upon it so heavily in error after all! Is it possible?