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Pilot12345

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Posts
20
Just wondering what the correct procedure is when you rotate at V1....

Ok, I have heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should come off the power levers and onto the yoke which means "were committed now".

I have also heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should NEVER come off the power levers except to briefly put the gear and flaps up at least until 1,000 AGL.

The reason I have been told to keep your hands ON the power levers is because of possible power lever friction lock problems. For example, A power lever could slip back making you think you had an engine failure. I have heard of power levers slipping back even with the friction lock all the way locked. Is this true?

Is it just a personal preference to keep your hands on or off the power levers at V1?

I'd appreciate any opinions!
Thank's
 
Pilot12345 said:
Ok, I have heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should come off the power levers and onto the yoke which means "were committed now".

I have also heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should NEVER come off the power levers except to briefly put the gear and flaps up at least until 1,000 AGL.
My company policy is for the hand to come off of the thrust levers at V1, and place it on the yoke. Rotation is executed with both hands on the yoke.

Since the PNF brings gear and flaps up, the PF keeps both hands on the yoke for a while, usually until he turns the autopilot on, or if he needs to bring the thrust back, for example, leveling off below 10K'.

LAXSaabdude.
 
Pilot12345 said:
Just wondering what the correct procedure is when you rotate at V1....

Ok, I have heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should come off the power levers and onto the yoke which means "were committed now".

I have also heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should NEVER come off the power levers except to briefly put the gear and flaps up at least until 1,000 AGL.

The reason I have been told to keep your hands ON the power levers is because of possible power lever friction lock problems. For example, A power lever could slip back making you think you had an engine failure. I have heard of power levers slipping back even with the friction lock all the way locked. Is this true?

Is it just a personal preference to keep your hands on or off the power levers at V1?

I'd appreciate any opinions!
Thank's

I have NEVER seen a 121 carrier that left hands on the throttles past V1. I have worked for 3 and jumpseated on most of the others......you will not see anybody keep hands on the levers past V1.

In the corporate world you see just about every procedure that you can imagine.......but none of the training centers train that way. FS, simcom,simuflite ect. all use the 121 style procedures.

The hands on approach you speak of is probably only on piston equipment.
 
Pilot12345 said:
Just wondering what the correct procedure is when you rotate at V1....

Ok, I have heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should come off the power levers and onto the yoke which means "were committed now".

I have also heard that when you rotate at V1 your right hand should NEVER come off the power levers except to briefly put the gear and flaps up at least until 1,000 AGL.

The reason I have been told to keep your hands ON the power levers is because of possible power lever friction lock problems. For example, A power lever could slip back making you think you had an engine failure. I have heard of power levers slipping back even with the friction lock all the way locked. Is this true?

Is it just a personal preference to keep your hands on or off the power levers at V1?

I'd appreciate any opinions!
Thank's

Pilot12345, every company and every aircraft I've flown, you ALWAYS take your right hand off the throttle (left if you're flying from the right seat) at V1 as you're committed to take off.

Friction lock, at least I've never heard of this, never comes into play during take off (unless someone sets power, tightens frictions and resets hand to throttle ???). On the Falcon 2000/2000EX, there is no throttle friction adjustment.

Another consideration: aircraft like the Citation 500-560 (not sure of the others) have a throttle interconnect to the engine where if a T/R should deploy, it would pull the throttle to idle. If you had both hands on the throttle when this happens, guess what? You'll now have two engines at idle. I've been flying Citations for over 15 years and it happened to me for the first time last October. Just after flap retraction I was adjusting to climb power when it happened. Thank heavens it was in the simulator!

2000Flyer
 
Your mixing a few concepts together

There are three speeds for takeoff that are common to most jets.

V1, Vr, and V2.

V1 is the go/ no go speed. Usually an engine failure below V1 means that you must abort so you keep your hands on the thrust levers until reaching V1. After V1 you will continue the takeoff so you take your hands off the thrust levers to reinforce that the decision has been made.

Vr is the rotation speed not V1 as you mentioned. While some aircraft do have V1's and Vr's very close some do not.

V2 is the speed at which you wish to climb initially following an engine failure with slight variations per a/c manufacture.

I could go into the whole part 25 climb and performance definitions but you probably do not want to hear all that.
 
I am not a jet driver but I do have a related question: Aren't most jet takeoffs at less than max power? If that is the case, and your performance/climb profile single engine is not going to be the greatest, why not keep your hands there to apply full power in the event that you lose one?

Just curious...
 
Immelman said:
I am not a jet driver but I do have a related question: Aren't most jet takeoffs at less than max power? If that is the case, and your performance/climb profile single engine is not going to be the greatest, why not keep your hands there to apply full power in the event that you lose one?

Just curious...

No jet takeoffs are a max "power". Power is for props. Jets use thrust.

And yes, most takeoffs are done at "reduced", "flex", or "alternate" thrust settings. If the runway can be balanced and the aircraft meet second-segment climb requirements, using reduced thrust reduces wear on the engines.

The reduced thrust is ALWAYS enough to get the aircraft to it's engine-out clean-up altitude, and meet all the restrictions prior to that.

It is an option to add more thrust if one of the engines swallows a grenade, but the thrust setting used will get the job done...otherwise you wouldn't have used it.

The only time I popped a motor on takeoff in a jet, I did add thrust after the gear was up, but only because I was IMC, in the mountains, and had sucked 6-inches of seat cushion up my butt. The thrust levers were right there where I had left them...and it was easy to push them both (no guessing which one!) up slightly to full thrust.
 
Single-pilot vs. two-crew

If you're single pilot, I can see the benefit to keeping your hands on the power levers as much as possible. You've got a lot to do and the last thing you need is the power levers sliding back. Might be a good idea to double-check the friction locks before take-off :) You should be able to rotate with one hand if the airplane is certified for single pilot ops. Nothing wrong with using both though to get a nice positive rotation, but I would probably put my right hand back on the power levers soon after.

Most airplanes that use V1, Vr, etc. are two-crew. At our complany the PNF would have his hands "backing up" the power levers after the PF calls "set power". At this point the PNF should monitor the power levers very closely while he monitors the engine instruments, etc. If any limits are exceeded or the power levers start to slide back, it should be the PNF that notices first and adjusts the power levers accordingly. This is between "set power" and the after take-off checks. After that it would likely be the PF that would adjust the power levers.

Hope that helps.
 
Immelman said:
I am not a jet driver but I do have a related question: Aren't most jet takeoffs at less than max power? If that is the case, and your performance/climb profile single engine is not going to be the greatest, why not keep your hands there to apply full power in the event that you lose one?

Just curious...

Prior to V1 everybody is in the stop mode if something happens, If your hands are on the throttle and you are still on the ground when a motor pops the automatic reaction is to try to stop, problem is after v1 you no longer have enough runway left to stop.

In a ruduced thrust condition you still have the power to go, part of the reduced thrust calculations, most companies only increase power after the intial engine failure call and a "max power" call....this removes the chance of anybody getting excited and pulling the power instead of adding it.

Try it in a sim sometime, it is amazing how many pilots will try to stop after the point of no return if they leave their hands on the levers....it is a conditioned reaction that is very very hard to overcome.

Edit: typing too fast, correct pee poor grammer.
 
Last edited:
Immelman said:
I am not a jet driver but I do have a related question: Aren't most jet takeoffs at less than max power? If that is the case, and your performance/climb profile single engine is not going to be the greatest, why not keep your hands there to apply full power in the event that you lose one?

Just curious...


Cant speak for every jet operation out there, but ours is called standard power takeoffs. We have takeoff data for every runway that we can use (almost every runway anyway). The way it works is you find the temp for that day and read across to the max weight you can takeoff with. That max weight is either runway limited (length) climb limited (performance for clearing obstacles) or structural (max takeoff weight). The nice thing with our data is that is unlimited meaing it will show max takeoff weights over max structural letting you know you have excess performance.

Now what we do for "standard" power takeoffs is we find our actual weight on the table, or as close as we can get, and read the temp. Basically using the chart backwards. We then take that temp (called assumed temp) and enter our performance charts with the assumed temp and actual takeoff weight. This gives us higer V1 VR V2, etc because we are assuming a hotter temp than actual. This works because not only does the airplane weigh less than the weight limit for that runway at that actual temp we are also using a power setting that is based on a higher temp than there really is. So we do takeoff with reduced power but the power is only reduced to the point that we get max performance for our actual weight (with fudge factors for climb gradients etc) instead of using a power setting (max power) for the max runway weight at that actual temp.

In short, if my runway limit weight is 330000# at 20 deg C but I only weigh 280000# why do I need to work the engines that much harder? I go to the chart and find the temp that has near 280000# limit weight and use that temp and 280000# in the speeds and N1 charts.
 

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