USAPA's Illegal Job Action Causing Pilot Terminations.

[get2flyin]

fwiw - i'd be more willing to entertain the idea of pbs if management including a guarantee of no reductions as a result.

Stop being reasonable!

 

[charlie2]

FWIW - I'd be more willing to entertain the idea of PBS if management including a guarantee of no reductions as a result.

Me too but they haven't offered it...why? Exactly.

 

[charlie2]

If management doesn't get PBS they will take the value of it out of other areas and USLOPA doesn't have the leverage to do a thing about it. Why would you pay dearly for something that will not cost you anything? Ask your reps that question (if they even take questions).

What's the "value" to management?

 

[cactusboy53]

Thanks for posting that. It may be a great tool for you west guys but for us it would be too painful to implement...meaning furloughs.

No matter what system you use to bid (paper, PBS, etc.), the trips constructed must be flown by someone. I disagree with the senior :erm: NAC negotiators: PBS DOES NOT MEAN FEWER PILOT JOBS. Someone still has to do the work created by the company.

When I was hired at AWA, PBS just started. We hired like gangbusters! If we vote in PBS and make sure that we have minimum fleet and hours addressed.....NO FURLOUGHS. If we really got with the program and stopped trying to dodge the Nicolau (be still my heart), maybe management might have time to work on growth & development plans (since they won't have to worry about who is wearing what lanyard).

Chuck; you're a sharp guy.....stop buying into ALL of the USAPA bull-honkey.

 

[cactusboy53]

Here is one FO that responded to my request. He stated that it was important for him to work Sun-Wed every week:

LINE: LH 289 FO **************************************************
PHX 320 Aug 2011 from 08/ 1 to 08/31 2011

Date Trip Check-in Flight(City) Layover Release Block Credit
---- -------- --------- ------------------- ------- -------- ------- -------
M 1 C/I
T 2 C/I
W 3 C/I We 19:15 1801 1802
T 4
F 5
S 6
S 7 8296 20:50 PHX 0689(EWR) 1101
M 8 " 0497(CLT)-0497(DEN) 15:38
T 9 " 0073(PHX)-0269(SMF)
" -0268(PHX) Tu 21:17 15:43 15:45
W 10
T 11
F 12
S 13
S 14 8824 21:55 PHX 0258(PHL) 13:22
M 15 " 0430(LAS) 11:52
T 16 " 0603(PHX)-0571(MCO) 10:50
W 17 " 0303(CLT)-0303(PHX) We 14:29 20:56 2100
T 18
F 19
S 20
S 21 8820 21:40 PHX 0258(PHL) 10:53
M 22 " 0074(SEA) 1307
T 23 " 0534(CLT) 17:19
W 24 " 0399(LAS)-0609(PHX) We 17:58 2109 2109
T 25
F 26
S 27
S 28 8138 800 PHX 0325(GDL) 15:52
M 29 " 0324(PHX)-0231(DTW) 14:32
T 30 " 0472(PHX) Tu 9:24 13:58 15:45
W 31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TAFB : 295:28 Excess Credit: 000
Total Calendar Days Off : 14 Total Block : 89:47
Credit Range : [7800 9200] Total Credit : 91:41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type of Line Desired:
Desire Regular Line

No Fly List:

Other options:
Accept a 24 hr period instead of 1 calendar day: NO
Request training if eligible: NO
Accept same day report after a late release: NO
Accept to sell days off: NO
Request long call reserve line: NO

Selected GDs:

Conditional bids:
GRANTED LEVEL BIDS


Regular Line Bids:
OCC. SCORE BIDS
1.00 40.0 40 pts Desire Sat Off Sa 06 AUG 02:30-Su 07 AUG 02:29
1.00 40.0 40 pts Desire Sat Off Sa 13 AUG 02:30-Su 14 AUG 02:29
1.00 40.0 40 pts Desire Sat Off Sa 20 AUG 02:30-Su 21 AUG 02:29
1.00 40.0 40 pts Desire Sat Off Sa 27 AUG 02:30-Su 28 AUG 02:29
-0.00 0.0 40 pts Avoid Sat Work Sa 03 SEP 02:30-Su 04 SEP 02:29
-0.00 0.0 40 pts Avoid Sat Work Sa 10 SEP 02:30-Su 11 SEP 02:29
-0.00 0.0 20 pts Avoid Breaks less than 2 days (score by day)
73.65 957.5 13 pts Desire Credit Time
-230.72 -692.2 3 pts Avoid TAFB (Time Away From Base)

Total 425.3

 

[cactusboy53]

FYI: PBS Monthly Line Averages: AUGUST 2011

PHX757CA 84:55
PHX757FO 84:37

PHX737CA 84:56
PHX737FO 83:59


PHX320CA 85:23
PHX320FO 8400

 

[cactusboy53]

This is mine. I'm in the middle of the pack in the B737. I got everything I was looking for (No vacation, but wanted week off in the middle of the month):

LINE: LH 023 FO ******************************** PHX 737 Aug 2011 from 08/ 1 to 08/31 2011

Date Trip Check-in Flight(City) Layover Release Block Credit
M 1
T 2 2029 6:45 PHX 0086(PDX)-0551(PHX) " -0551(DFW) 10:13
W 3 " 0541(LAS)-0393(DFW) 15:52
T 4 " 0641(PHX) Th 6:39 15:34 15:45
F 5
S 6
S 7 2029 6:45 PHX 0086(PDX)-0551(PHX) " -0551(DFW) 10:13
M 8 " 0541(LAS)-0393(DFW) 15:52
T 9 " 0641(PHX) Tu 6:39 15:34 15:45
W 10
T 11
F 12
S 13
S 14
M 15
T 16
W 17 2010 7:45 PHX 0332(SJD)-0333(PHX) " -0275(IAH) 11:37
T 18 " 0362(PHX) Th 9:27 9:39 10:30
F 19
S 20
S 21 2067 7:45 PHX 0332(SJD)-0333(PHX) " -0275(IAH) 11:37
M 22 " 0362(PHX)-0436(TUS) " -0638(PHX) " -0662(SNA) 14:36
T 23 " 0271(PHX)-0271(IAH) 1509
W 24 " 0270(PHX) We 701 19:27 2100
T 25
F 26
S 27
S 28 2067 7:45 PHX 0332(SJD)-0333(PHX) " -0275(IAH) 11:37
M 29 " 0362(PHX)-0436(TUS) " -0638(PHX) " -0662(SNA) 14:36
T 30 " 0271(PHX)-0271(IAH) 1509
W 31 " 0270(PHX) We 701 19:27 2100 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TAFB : 26402 Excess Credit: 000 Total Calendar Days Off : 15 Total Block : 79:41 Credit Range : [7800 9200] Total Credit : 8400 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type of Line Desired: Desire Regular Line
No Fly List: Empty No Fly List (I'm the Rodney King of PHX )
Other options: Accept a 24 hr period instead of 1 calendar day: NO Request training if eligible: NO
Accept same day report after a late release: NO
Accept to sell days off: NO Request long call reserve line: NO
Selected GDs:
Regular Line Bids: OCC.
SCORE BIDS 1.00 1000.0 1000 pts Desire Period Off We 10 AUG 02:30-Tu 16 AUG 02:29 6.00 6000.0 1000 pts Desire Day Off in String 10 AUG 02:30-16 AUG 02:29 6.00 6000.0 1000 pts Desire Day Off in String 16 AUG 02:29-10 AUG 02:30 -0.00 0.0 1000 pts Desire Pairing 2014 / We 03 AUG -0.00 0.0 1000 pts Desire Pairing 2029 / Sa 06 AUG 1.00 1000.0 1000 pts Desire Pairing 2067 / Su 28 AUG 1.00 1000.0 1000 pts Desire Pairing 2067 / Su 21 AUG -0.00 0.0 900 pts Desire Pairing 2064 / We 31 AUG -0.00 0.0 100 pts Desire Load Beg 1.00 100.0 100 pts Desire Load End -0.00 0.0 51 pts Avoid Breaks less than 2 days (score by day) -0.00 0.0 50 pts Desire Minimum Time of 9000 Hrs -0.00 0.0 40 pts Avoid Work Period Checkout Aft 14:30 -5.00 -150.0 30 pts Avoid Total Work Periods 5.25 78.8 15 pts Desire Each Hr/Day Average Productivity 84.00 252.0 3 pts Desire Credit Time -264.03 -264.0 1 pts Avoid TAFB (Time Away From Base) Total 15016.7

 

[Bringupthebird]

What's the "value" to management?

Probably somewhere north of $5million/yr.

 

[charlie2]

Thanks for posting all that Cactusboy. I definitely have been talking about it to other pilots and will ask my reps about it to. I realy hate some of the crap that has gone on with USAPA but I remember really hating a lot of what was going on when we were ALPA. Even though we have some differant faces on the BPR then we had on the MEC we still have much of the same in fighting. Rodney King....funny!

Bringupthebird I still don't understand where the 5 mil will come from.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

No matter what system you use to bid (paper, PBS, etc.), the trips constructed must be flown by someone. I disagree with the senior :erm: NAC negotiators: PBS DOES NOT MEAN FEWER PILOT JOBS. Someone still has to do the work created by the company.

When I was hired at AWA, PBS just started. We hired like gangbusters! If we vote in PBS and make sure that we have minimum fleet and hours addressed.....NO FURLOUGHS. If we really got with the program and stopped trying to dodge the Nicolau (be still my heart), maybe management might have time to work on growth & development plans (since they won't have to worry about who is wearing what lanyard).

Chuck; you're a sharp guy.....stop buying into ALL of the USAPA bull-honkey.

PBS allows for fewer pilots because it doesn't allow for conflict bidding with training, vacation, or carry in pairings. Same amount of flying, but with less pilots to cover known conflicts. This is why companies love PBS, it is most efficient for them.

 

[cactusboy53]

PBS allows for fewer pilots because it doesn't allow for conflict bidding with training, vacation, or carry in pairings. Same amount of flying, but with less pilots to cover known conflicts. This is why companies love PBS, it is most efficient for them.

OK. If we only have 58 furloughed pilots out still (many by choice), and say 40 of them come back to the West when called (my estimate will be by the end of the year), AND we will have to hire East (NOW), and West (after the first of the year).......AND the age 65 model opens up the flood gates in December of 2012.......AND we get the Kirby Proposal with Delta wages (and the courts carve the Nicolau in stone so there is no misunderstanding).......Would the contract pass? I know I would vote YEA for that.

Delta is negotiating its SECOND post merger contract. Regional carriers are so short that they are paying $150-$225 an hour for available captains to fly 50 seat jets. Everyone else is making $151-$198 for NB captain pay. When will 600-700 east pilots finally figure out that there will be NO improvement until USAPA finally recognizes the legally recognized Nicolau award? MILLONS lost (except to LCC who is posting a profit on our backs), never to be recovered.

The overall monetary & QOL loss for our combined pilot group due to the chase for date-of-hire is STAGGERING.

 

[LearLove]

AND we get the Kirby Proposal

You do understand that this "proposal" comes with huge erosion in scope (basically no scope)? So none of us (east and west) would have jobs after they gut all the domestic flying.

 

[charlie2]

You do understand that this "proposal" comes with huge erosion in scope (basically no scope)? So none of us (east and west) would have jobs after they gut all the domestic flying.

I don't think they really understand that garbage millionaire president's proposal at all. You guys need to stop looking at the small increase in pay and understand the more important parts of your Sir Kirby proposal.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why are the guys who gave away their airline to Mesa griping about scope? LOA 93 has great workrules? Are you sure about that?

 

[cactusboy53]

I don't think they really understand that garbage millionaire president's proposal at all. You guys need to stop looking at the small increase in pay and understand the more important parts of your Sir Kirby proposal.

Chuck;
I understand scope just fine. I will admit the KP scope is pretty weak. My point(s) remain that our "experienced" NAC is NEGOTIATING AWAY from many good sections that the KP did better on. IF you can legally accept the Nic, and put someone in charge that knows what they are doing (both executive AND the NAC), we might actually be able to negotiate a better contract sometime before 2525.

You are 3 years and 4 months into USAPA's failed experiment. USAPA has not kept ONE promised goal. How much more time and complete loss of money & time off will it take for you to realize that you have bought delay, and the cost is too high.

We will move forward with you lock & step to a new contract right after you accept the only legally recognized seniority list. When you do so, you empower the ENTIRE pilot group. So the question is: Do you help us change this union NOW or do you keep waiting for Kasher's decision, Silver's decisions, Cleary to COMPLETELY outspend his budget on legal filings (oh wait, I think he's past that now), or ???????

CB