USAPA tries to have 4 AWA pilots Fired!

MK82Man

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Within the last couple of weeks, USAPA sent letters to the Company demanding that it fire four West pilots who USAPA claimed had not paid union dues or fees. While there are literally thousands of West and East pilots who have not paid dues, USAPA chose to send these letters to the Company demanding only that these four West pilots be fired. So far as AWAPPA knows, USAPA has not sent any other letters since sending these four.

USAPA mailed these letters on September 5th which started a critical fifteen day timeline to pay the dues alleged or submit a request for a review by the Company. All four pilots chose to request a review with US Airways Vice President of Labor Relations in accordance with Section 29 of the West collective bargaining agreement. On 18 September, AWAPPA received word that the Company upheld the appeals of all four pilots. While each pilot raised numerous issues in arguing that the provisions of Section 29 were not properly interpreted or applied, the VP of Labor Relations upheld the appeals based on the following issue (and therefore did not address the other issues each pilot raised)

While all four pilots had applied for membership with USAPA, only one pilot received email notification that her application had been accepted. This appeal was upheld on the basis that USAPA had violated its own Constitution and By-Laws by allowing the USAPA BPR to accept the application rather than the domicile members as required. The appeal states that unless it is clear that membership has been granted based upon established admissions procedures, the obligation to pay dues is in doubt and the pilot will not be fired.

The other three pilots had received no notification of whether their application had been accepted or denied. If in fact USAPA had denied their application, section 29 would not apply to them at all and there would be no obligation to pay dues money.

USAPA now has the opportunity to appeal these decisions within ten calendar days and submit the case before a neutral arbitrator.

USAPA continues to tell pilots to watch what our Management does and not what they say. AWAPPA believes that the same test applies to USAPA's self-appointed leadership team. While USAPA claims that it wants West pilots to be part of the union, its actions have proven they are only interested in continued discrimination and intimidation. In addition to their baseless lawsuit against our pilots that was promptly dismissed by the Federal court, it also published an update on September 4th that announced the "acceptance" of over 600 West pilots' membership applications. But instead of notifying and welcoming these pilots, on September 5th, it sent letters to four of those pilots in an attempt to have them fired. Additionally, it seems as if the acceptance of the West membership applications was improper and invalid.

It is important for all pilots - West and East - to recognize that USAPA may send additional certified letters to pilots they believe are delinquent in union dues or fees and letters to the Company asking that they be fired. The date of this certified letter triggers a critical 15 day timeline that, if ignored, could lead to possible termination.
 

MCDU

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Maybe they won't have to furlough after all out west.

M
 

Soverytired

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Huh. Well try not paying your dues at an ALPA carrier and see how much sympathy you get when ALPA moves to get your deadbeat, free-loading a$$ fired.

If you're at a union carrier, pay your dues (even if your union sucks).

IMHO.
 

FDJ2

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Good for the West pilot. USAPA isn't a union, it's an unprincipled mob and pilots should not be required to pay a mob whose intent is to not honor a pilots seniority.
 

MCDU

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So when you went default into your GIA payments, did they try to get you fired?

Lame. Come on Loser. You gotta come up with something better then this Gulfstream crap. Its getting pretty desperate.

How about me crossing picket lines. Thats much more amusing, since we do not have a single pilot that crossed at USAIR. The AWA pilot group on the other hand have many pilots who had no problems crossing pilots on strike. The same way they have no problems taking away flying from real USair pilots. They do not want fences. I wonder why?

M
 

FDJ2

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They do not want fences. I wonder why?

M
Perhaps because they are willing to live up to their agreements and honor the final binding decision of an arbitrator.

Why aren't you willing to accept the results of a process your pilot group agreed too.

I guess it's easier to create a sham union and hope for a do over. Sorry, but final and binding is final and binding.
 
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MCDU

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Final and Binding. Kind of like when OJ Simpson got his final and binding.
"Your pilot group".you say.That was ALPA idiots who signed away our pension and gave our jobs to Republic. We as line pilots were just on the side line.

Now we had enough of this abortion and are taking things in our own hands. No more Mr. Nice guy line pilot out East. The line pilots have spoken and we want nothing to do with what our ALPA reps and ALPA did with our careers. A real pilots Union was formed.
No more GIA mentality that one can skip years and take a windfall. Relative seniority is a complete joke. No real Union would stand for such nonsense. United is seeing the light to. As Prater would say. We are taking it back. But we mean it.

M
 

Bringupthebird

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No more Mr. Nice guy line pilot out East. The line pilots have spoken and we want nothing to do with what our ALPA reps and ALPA did with our careers.
M
And here I thought nothing could top "USAir setting itself up for a merger", but you have!

Yes you want nothing to do with the union that got you the best pay and work rules in the industry, who championed more advances in flight safety than any other organization in history, who fought for flight and duty regulations who in short accomplished something.

On the other hand, there's USAPA...

No more Mr. Smart Guy line pilot out east obviously
 

Soverytired

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Good for the West pilot. USAPA isn't a union, it's an unprincipled mob and pilots should not be required to pay a mob whose intent is to not honor a pilots seniority.

I don't disagree with the sentiment in the slightest; unfortunately, as a matter of US federal labor law, USAPA is the duly elected negotiating authority for both pilot groups . . . i.e., it's their union.
 

becket

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Final and Binding. Kind of like when OJ Simpson got his final and binding.
"Your pilot group".you say.That was ALPA idiots who signed away our pension and gave our jobs to Republic. We as line pilots were just on the side line.

Now we had enough of this abortion and are taking things in our own hands. No more Mr. Nice guy line pilot out East. The line pilots have spoken and we want nothing to do with what our ALPA reps and ALPA did with our careers. A real pilots Union was formed.
No more GIA mentality that one can skip years and take a windfall. Relative seniority is a complete joke. No real Union would stand for such nonsense. United is seeing the light to. As Prater would say. We are taking it back. But we mean it.

M
Small problem Easthole...you're on the wrong side of the law.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Yep
At the airline I worked for, an ALPA carried, and it was 10 years ago, you could not join the union, but they took the dues out of your paycheck anyway, it was one of the standard deductions. Has that changed in the years I've been away?
 

TWA Dude

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Hugh:

The RLA hasn't changed in many years. It's called Agency Shop and it applies to all US unionized airlines. Membership is optional but if you're a non-member you pay either an Agency Fee equal to full union dues or you can be a dues objector and pay around 85% of full dues.
 

Ocity

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Hugh:

The RLA hasn't changed in many years. It's called Agency Shop and it applies to all US unionized airlines. Membership is optional but if you're a non-member you pay either an Agency Fee equal to full union dues or you can be a dues objector and pay around 85% of full dues.
That assumes the "Union" was properly formed and working in the common interest of all parties. 2800 out of 5300 pilots are non payers. All 4 USAPA is attempting to fire are West...two are female. They'll lose arbitration and the company is loath to fire a pilot for non-payment. Why would they risk the discrimination suit?

USAPA and the merry band of impotents that run it are pathetic jokes.
 

av8tor4239

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I am curious if USair ever hires again who the F@$K would apply???
 

cactusboy53

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I'm just waiting for callsign "United";) .

Gee, I wonder if the UAL kids will vote to keep USAPA. Any UALers out there? How do you feel about the former AAA crew and USAPA?.......Flame On!!
 

MK82Man

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Here's the really ironic thing. USAPA is now seeking arbitration since they didn't like the company's answer on not firing the West Pilots. It's hilarious, USAPA now wants arbitration (but only for the 4 West Pilots they want fired) ... will they stand by the arbitrator's ruling?

From the USAPA Update:

Item Two: USAPA has taken action to compel the Company to enforce Section 29 of both the East and West Collective Bargaining Agreements. In both contracts, Section 29 deals with the pilots’ financial obligation to the Bargaining Agent and termination of pilots who refuse to pay either dues, if a member, or at least the agency fees, if a non member. On Thursday the Company advised USAPA that they are declining to proceed with the termination of certain pilots due to USAPA’s alleged non-compliance with certain technical requirements.

Pursuant to Section 29, USAPA intends to appeal the Company decision to a neutral arbitrator for the purpose of obtaining an order requiring the Company to terminate the pilots in question. The costs of each arbitration will be split between USAPA and the individual pilot concerned.

USAPA has no desire to cause the termination of any pilot, East or West, but we have a duty to those who are currently fulfilling their financial obligation to compel all pilots to pay their fair share of the costs of running this union. The courts have continually upheld the principle of Agency Fee payment when an Agency Shop or security clause is in the contract, and as the aforementioned arguments are made before the neutral arbitrator we intend to move forward enforcing Section 29 as needed.
 

Bringupthebird

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Why would a pilot agree to arbitration? If USAPA has a beef with how the company interpreted their actions, they should sue the company. Instead they pick on a softer target and then unilaterally decide that they will share the arbitration costs. If the pilot is not a member, they are not compelled to participate in arbitration outlined in the napkin that is the C&BL's (napkin2.0).

Bradford doesn't really understand his place in the real world, does he?
 
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