USAPA saves Jobs on East and West

[f15boomer]

:beer: Well boys, USAPA has saved your jobs with their hard work. With the min. block award and the 190 sale where the company tried to furlough pilots, now the CO has backed off of furloughing any west pilots and just 39 on the east out of 200 total.

Thanks USAPA

f15boomer

 

[becket]

Sorry to burst your Pro-UCRAPA bubble but the company NEVER had any intention of furloughing West pilots in the first place. Hogg and Bular have been privately stating this since before Thanksgiving...I know. I was standing right there. USAPA didn't save a single West job.

 

[xanderman]

:beer: Well boys, USAPA has saved your jobs with their hard work. With the min. block award and the 190 sale where the company tried to furlough pilots, now the CO has backed off of furloughing any west pilots and just 39 on the east out of 200 total.

Thanks USAPA

f15boomer

In the interest of preventing false information being disseminated you should know that the "remedy" phase has yet to be completed regarding TA-10 (Min block hour violation grievance). Yes USAPA won the grievance but decided to keep the remedy phase between them and the company (with Bloch retaining jurisdiction). Months after the win we are now going back to Bloch for a remedy. It is quite possible that the company sees the writing on the wall, however, it is incorrect to say the "min. block award" saved anything yet. We simply do not know what Bloch will do.

 

[abefly]

Cleary and all usapians can blow me! That felt good, carry on!

 

[JerryLundegaard]

It was so nice while you guys were gone.

 

[steveg]

I was furloughed BECAUSE of usapa.

 

[PHXFLYR]

:beer: Well boys, usapa has saved your jobs with their hard work. With the min. Block award and the 190 sale where the company tried to furlough pilots, now the co has backed off of furloughing any west pilots and just 39 on the east out of 200 total.

Thanks usapa

f15boomer

Phxflyr

 

[captairbusbb]

I may be wrong, and somebody please correct me if I am, but I don't recall USAPA even being involved in this (TA-10) greivance.

For USAPA to claim victory in this debacle I raise the BS Flag big time.

 

[xanderman]

I may be wrong, and somebody please correct me if I am, but I don't recall USAPA even being involved in this (TA-10) greivance.

For USAPA to claim victory in this debacle I raise the BS Flag big time.

Dave Ciabattoni (sp?) formerly of USAPA discovered the violation. USAPA's grievance committee then took the company to task over the matter. One member of that committee is from the west. So yes they (USAPA) deserve credit where credit is due. However, that certainly does not excuse their actions meant to harm the west or individual west pilots... At least IMO.

 

[Deadalus]

:beer: Well boys, USAPA has saved your jobs with their hard work. With the min. block award and the 190 sale where the company tried to furlough pilots, now the CO has backed off of furloughing any west pilots and just 39 on the east out of 200 total.

Thanks USAPA

f15boomer

Whatever ****************************** bag. When all the furloughing was going on out west UCrapa did nothing. Now that the next round of furloughs is 90% east....Woooooooohhhh hold on now we better do something. What a bunch of scumbags.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Did the East rates ever go back to pre-LOA? Wasn't that LOA supposed to expire December 31?

 

[Hpilot]

Did the East rates ever go back to pre-LOA? Wasn't that LOA supposed to expire December 31?

I'm sure USAPA told their followers they were going to. Riiiiiiiighhhhttt and DOH is going to happen too. For any easties out there I have a nice bridge and some waterfront in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

 

[MCDU]

To all you former East furloughees at AWA and to all you former US Express pilots out West,who always had a chip on their shoulder against Mainline.

We hear you. You want your Windfall. You think its great that Nic placed 750 East pilots below your bottom pilot. You also think it is great that nic will allow you to start flying 330's to Europe, even though you did not have one single widebody.

When Nic issued the award in 2007, active pilots with 17 years were stapled behind 2 year pilots. you think that is fair. Nic is totally clueless on how pilots tick. Just as his ruling against furloughed AMR pilots in favor of Eagle pilots who never flew a trip at AMR. An abolute disgrace.

How can you justify placing pilots who were in grade school ahead of former East captains. Plain and simple greed.
DOH 1998= DOH 1986
DOH 2005= DOH 1988

AWA pilots sound like Republic pilots trying to justify how Mid Ex pilots should not get DOH. I strongly disagree.

Westies. The only reason you want the Nic is because of the huge Windfall.

How about waiting your turn and not trying to cut in line.

M

 

[PHXFLYR]

Martin, Martin Martin...what are we gonna do with you ,doush ?


You do realize the difference between longevity and seniority, do you not ?


You do realize that said longevity does not neccesarily equate to a senior pilot position at his own airline, especially as long-time struggling one like yours that had more furloughs and cutbacks than growth over the last 15 years or so , right ?


How can you justify NIC placing a 17 year USAIr pilot next to a 2 years, you ask ? Simple. Look where they were on their own seperate seniority lists and see what seat nd position they held. Bet you they where very similar in terms of bid position seat held etc. I know they where in my case.

!998 hire, until recently a B737 reserve Captain out of PHX until recently displaced to a senior F?O position on the 'busuntil displaced due to our furloughs and the fuek spike a few summers back. Got slotted in between 2 slooted in between 2 guys hired at USAir east in 19

 

[PHXFLYR]

Martin, Martin Martin...what are we gonna do with you ,doosh ?


You do realize the difference between longevity and seniority, do you not ?


You do realize that said longevity does not neccesarily equate to a senior pilot position at his own airline, especially as long-time struggling one like yours that had more furloughs and cutbacks than growth over the last 15 years or so , right ?


How can you justify NIC placing a 17 year USAir pilot next to a 2 year AWA pilot , you ask ? Simple. Look where they were on their own seperate seniority lists and see what seat and bid position they held. Bet you they where very similar in terms of bid position seat held etc. I know they where in my case and many others throughout the seniority list. And the sooner you and many others like you wrap your little minds around this fact,then maybe you'l lbe able to focus on negotiating yourself a payraise and get more than your 81/hr top out rate for flying an Airbus. My story...for what its worth...and I'm here to tell ya' that aint much

1998 hire, until recently a B737 reserve Captain out of PHX with 15 reserve Captains junior to me until displaced . Got slotted in between 2 easties that got hired at the original USAir in 1985 . Knowing how you guys are hotwired from my wholly-owned days I think to myself "Uh-Oh ...this can't be good." Then I got to thinking "what do these guys do for their own airline ? " So I take the seniority list that my friend T, (my 1987 hire east pilot bud I went to college with that I mentioned in another post on this webboard ) gave me ; the same list you guys submitted to Nicolau . Care to guess what those 1985 easties held at their own airline, Marty ? The guy one seniority number senior to me was a B737 Reserve Captain out of PHL with 26 reserve captain jr to him, 54 percentile on his old USAir list. Compare that with my 737 reserve slot in PHX . 15 guys underneath me 51 percentil on my old seniority list. On the NIC list I went from 51 percentile to 56 percentile , your east buddy went from 54 percentile to 52 percentile.
Care to explain to me to me what we are fighting about ? Better yet explain that windfall you keep talking about, because honestly we just don't see it out west . ( and before you begin your diatribe, let me state for the record that I have absolutley no desire to fly widebodies to Europe in the middle of the night and run the risk of hauling someone who might be hell-bent on blowing my airplane out from under me so please don't go there, OK ? )


Oh yeah; in case your wondering about the guy one number junior to me ? He was a lifestyle kind of guy and remained as an FO flying the international trips for you guys in the A330. So much for "stovepipe Bidding " , huh ?


...until we meet again


PHXFLYR

 

[Hpilot]

To all you former East furloughees at AWA and to all you former US Express pilots out West,who always had a chip on their shoulder against Mainline.

We hear you. You want your Windfall. You think its great that Nic placed 750 East pilots below your bottom pilot. You also think it is great that nic will allow you to start flying 330's to Europe, even though you did not have one single widebody.

When Nic issued the award in 2007, active pilots with 17 years were stapled behind 2 year pilots. you think that is fair. Nic is totally clueless on how pilots tick. Just as his ruling against furloughed AMR pilots in favor of Eagle pilots who never flew a trip at AMR. An abolute disgrace.

How can you justify placing pilots who were in grade school ahead of former East captains. Plain and simple greed.
DOH 1998= DOH 1986
DOH 2005= DOH 1988

AWA pilots sound like Republic pilots trying to justify how Mid Ex pilots should not get DOH. I strongly disagree.

Westies. The only reason you want the Nic is because of the huge Windfall.

How about waiting your turn and not trying to cut in line.

M

You guys complain about a list where the number one pilot from the Aquiring airline is placed below 500 of your guys. What a joke. Talk about greed or is it you're just plain stupid.

 

[PHXFLYR]

........................................................

 

[PHXFLYR]

Did the East rates ever go back to pre-LOA? Wasn't that LOA supposed to expire December 31?

You funny pilot, Joe.

But seriously, I think it's before the arbitrator. They should hear something probably before the beginning of summer.

PHXFLYR

 

[Full of LUV]

Where is this now.....

........................................................

So it's been like what..... 3 years since the merger was announced? Is this the longest SLI in history or what?

Without getting into the merits of the "Nic" where is the process now? Last I heard, USAPA had been sued, but that was over a year ago it seems.... Is there any end to this SLI process in sight?

Is the strategy just to keep the company separate until enough of the East retires so that the West has the majority again and can vote ALPA back in and implement the list?

I thought the East got some big pay bump as of Jan 2010 because the side letter ran out....did that happen, or is their a greivance about it?

Without the poo slinging, is their really any chance that a SLI and new contract will ever come to a combined US Airways?

Is this the way the CEO likes it because ultimately he is saving money over combining the pilot groups?

Sorry for the questions, but the process seems to have stalled out some.....

 

[get2flyin]

I love Flightinfo because this East vs. West thing never gets old.

 

[becket]

To all you former East furloughees at AWA and to all you former US Express pilots out West,who always had a chip on their shoulder against Mainline.

We hear you. You want your Windfall. You think its great that Nic placed 750 East pilots below your bottom pilot. You also think it is great that nic will allow you to start flying 330's to Europe, even though you did not have one single widebody.

When Nic issued the award in 2007, active pilots with 17 years were stapled behind 2 year pilots. you think that is fair. Nic is totally clueless on how pilots tick. Just as his ruling against furloughed AMR pilots in favor of Eagle pilots who never flew a trip at AMR. An abolute disgrace.

How can you justify placing pilots who were in grade school ahead of former East captains. Plain and simple greed.
DOH 1998= DOH 1986
DOH 2005= DOH 1988

AWA pilots sound like Republic pilots trying to justify how Mid Ex pilots should not get DOH. I strongly disagree.

Westies. The only reason you want the Nic is because of the huge Windfall.

How about waiting your turn and not trying to cut in line.

M

WHEN NIC issued his list is completely IRRELEVANT. You know the PID was a full two years earlier...you remember that right, that's the time that someone really close to you was UNEMPLOYED from US Air. That person brought a total of *jacksh^t* to the merger.

Why would someone, with exactly NOTHING to offer think they should get ANYTHING in a merger?

Nic. didn't think so either...or the West...or the Judge...or the Jury..or the company...or the arbitrators of DL/NW...or the 9th....starting to see a pattern here?

 

[xrated]

Why would someone, with exactly NOTHING to offer think they should get ANYTHING in a merger?

Nic. didn't think so either...or the West...or the Judge...or the Jury..or the company...or the arbitrators of DL/NW...or the 9th....starting to see a pattern here?

This should be said over, over, over and over again. I'm going to copy and paste it and whenever an Eastie cries "it's just not fair", I'm going to post it.

 

[Metrojet]

Sorry to burst your Pro-UCRAPA bubble but the company NEVER had any intention of furloughing West pilots in the first place. Hogg and Bular have been privately stating this since before Thanksgiving...I know. I was standing right there. USAPA didn't save a single West job.

Beckett -

So your management? "standing right there" during a private conversation?

Metrojet

 

[becket]

Beckett -

So your management? "standing right there" during a private conversation?

Metrojet

No. Bular was in the crewroom. He was having an impromptu conversation with a group of pilots. One of them was slated for furlough. Bular, very plainly said that he shouldn't worry about it as he really didn't think it was going to happen. That was in Mid November. I was standing right there because that's where airline pilots stand....in the crew room.

 

[TWA Dude]

So it's been like what..... 3 years since the merger was announced? Is this the longest SLI in history or what?

The merger closed in September 2005.

Without getting into the merits of the "Nic" where is the process now?

Awaiting a joint contract.

Last I heard, USAPA had been sued, but that was over a year ago it seems....

Last May they lost the DFR suit by unanimous jury decision. The appeal was heard last December so we expect their verdict at any time.

Is there any end to this SLI process in sight? Is the strategy just to keep the company separate until enough of the East retires so that the West has the majority again and can vote ALPA back in and implement the list?

The East's strategy is indeed to delay getting a new contract. That also happens to be management's strategy. Two groups truly made for each other.

I thought the East got some big pay bump as of Jan 2010 because the side letter ran out....did that happen, or is their a greivance about it?

It didn't happen and the grievance is being heard right now. I believe they did get a scheduled 3% raise though.

Without the poo slinging, is their really any chance that a SLI and new contract will ever come to a combined US Airways?

Yes, of course there's a chance. When a TA is finally presented the Easties might decide they've had enough of their bankruptcy era contract. Only one way to find out.

Is this the way the CEO likes it because ultimately he is saving money over combining the pilot groups?

Running an airline with two different pilot and FA groups on totally different contracts -- and not being able to mix the two is a very costly way to operate. The bean counters figure it's still cheaper than giving everyone a pay raise.

Sorry for the questions, but the process seems to have stalled out some.....

Never apologize for seeking knowledge.

 

[JudgeSmails218]

TWA Dude--
Good informative, non-inflammatory post!

 

[surfnfly]

WHEN NIC issued his list is completely IRRELEVANT. You know the PID was a full two years earlier...you remember that right, that's the time that someone really close to you was UNEMPLOYED from US Air. That person brought a total of *jacksh^t* to the merger.

Why would someone, with exactly NOTHING to offer think they should get ANYTHING in a merger?

Nic. didn't think so either...or the West...or the Judge...or the Jury..or the company...or the arbitrators of DL/NW...or the 9th....starting to see a pattern here?

Because Nic is an idiot and needs to be taken off the NMB list. Go ask the TWA guys/gals why they get to be furloughed again and be placed below Eagle pilots that never sat 1 day in an American cockpit or ground school. The man is clearly off his rocker these days.

 

[AutoBus]

To all you former East furloughees at AWA and to all you former US Express pilots out West,who always had a chip on their shoulder against Mainline.

We hear you. You want your Windfall. You think its great that Nic placed 750 East pilots below your bottom pilot. You also think it is great that nic will allow you to start flying 330's to Europe, even though you did not have one single widebody.

When Nic issued the award in 2007, active pilots with 17 years were stapled behind 2 year pilots. you think that is fair. Nic is totally clueless on how pilots tick. Just as his ruling against furloughed AMR pilots in favor of Eagle pilots who never flew a trip at AMR. An abolute disgrace.

How can you justify placing pilots who were in grade school ahead of former East captains. Plain and simple greed.
DOH 1998= DOH 1986
DOH 2005= DOH 1988

AWA pilots sound like Republic pilots trying to justify how Mid Ex pilots should not get DOH. I strongly disagree.

Westies. The only reason you want the Nic is because of the huge Windfall.

How about waiting your turn and not trying to cut in line.

M

Yep that's what you get when YOUR company is 2 weeks from closing the doors.

In DP's own words "we didn't have time to do a prenup (pre merger), USAirway was going away" - Source Crew News July 2009


The nic is fair, the only reason it seems unfair is the USAirways was so screwed up, so bad, that the junior guy on the active list (the next one to go out the door) had 16 years on the property, sorry you don't get rewarded for that!

Sorry you don't like it but, people got grouped (under the nic) by the position they held premerger.

Are you saying a senior AWA captain should be displaced, downgraded to give a bottom of reserve east fo the slot he thinks he deserves?

 

[AppBrookie]

Bottom Line: About 150 plus folks got a late Christmas Gift...
Good luck

 

[dugan jones]

maybe they can help 200+ get called back before next xmas