USAPA Runoff election

[BeCareful!]

Lot's of interesting stuff here.

Cactusboy53, I personally don't understand why any of you guys would have been satisfied with a 3% raise. See, in my book that shouldn't fly. But then I got to thinking, that was a 3% raise along with the Nicolau "award" and then it all makes sense

AutoBus made yet another great comment showing his lack of reading comprehension. Yeah, goon, LOA 93 was bad. I certainly didn't vote for it. My effing point is that a good contract will take time, and we all get tired of hearing west and senior greedy east guys whine that there's no joint contract in place. There are LOTS of reasons for that, and the Company's negotiators are one of them, as is the lawsuit. Patience and sacrafice are ALWAYS required to get a contract in this gig.

Which brings me to Carl's remark. No, unfortunately the @ssh0l#$ who ran ALPA into the ditch on our property seldom take any responsibility for anything they did. Even the man just beaten in the Runoff election has a long song about how, even though he was the negotiating committee chairman when LOA 93 got rammed down our collective throats, it really wasn't his fault and he has a list of others to point his fingers at. No, none of those former ALPA tough guys nor their strong supporters (mostly CLT and BOS guys) take much responsibility for what they did, including their botched integration efforts. That whole group had turned into a bunch of wussies on ALPA Flight Pay Loss who had lost all grasp of just how badly they had failed this group over many, many years. All you ever got when you talked to any of them was a bunch of "Well, he said, and then she did, and let me tell you about what happened in Aspen, and four years ago at a meeting that guy stood up and said," and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.
No matter who you voted out the g'damn group would always end up acting like a bunch of idiots!
I know every one of you think it was just all about the Nic, and no matter how many of us tell you it wasn't your ears will be closed to it, but it's the truth: ALPA failed miserably here, and so pilots took responsibility for the whole mess by creating USAPA. Yeah, it ain't popular with you guys, and I'm personally very sorry about that. But that's where my apology ends. Somebody had to get control of our situation, because ALPA had lost its FU&%ING mind when it came to representing the professional pilots of US Airways (like Sully! )
We deserved better, and while it might not work, we are trying to create something better than that g'damn bureaucratic POS called ALPA that failed, repeatedly, to do its FU#&!NG JOB!!!!!!!

 

[reepicheep]

You guys aren't all a@#&*#@s and we understand that, but you picked the wrong battle. The time to dump ALPA and shut down the company was when they were terminating your pension. Compared to recent events that would have at least been a noble fight and would have gained you respect throughout the industry instead of turning you into the industry pariahs you are now.

 

[BeCareful!]

You guys aren't all a@#&*#@s and we understand that, but you picked the wrong battle. The time to dump ALPA and shut down the company was when they were terminating your pension. Compared to recent events that would have at least been a noble fight and would have gained you respect throughout the industry instead of turning you into the industry pariahs you are now.

Yeah well it didn't as soon as many of us would have liked. Some things, the best things in fact, take time.

For the record I've never felt nor seen expressed this mythical "pariah" syndrome you all talk about on here. Every jumpseat I've been on, and in every other circumstance where I've spoken with pilots from other airlines they have expressed curiosity, admiration, congratulations, but nothing negative whatsoever about our independent union. I guess since you live on the Internet you have a special perspective.

 

[reepicheep]

I think what you're seeing is professionalism on the part of crews. All I can say is jumpseating as an America West pilot I don't see the same admiration for usair pilots that you describe. Maybe I'm getting a biased perspective. I guess we could take a FI poll.

 

[AutoBus]

Lot's of interesting stuff here.

Cactusboy53, I personally don't understand why any of you guys would have been satisfied with a 3% raise. See, in my book that shouldn't fly. But then I got to thinking, that was a 3% raise along with the Nicolau "award" and then it all makes sense

AutoBus made yet another great comment showing his lack of reading comprehension. Yeah, goon, LOA 93 was bad. I certainly didn't vote for it. My effing point is that a good contract will take time, and we all get tired of hearing west and senior greedy east guys whine that there's no joint contract in place. There are LOTS of reasons for that, and the Company's negotiators are one of them, as is the lawsuit. Patience and sacrafice are ALWAYS required to get a contract in this gig.

Which brings me to Carl's remark. No, unfortunately the @ssh0l#$ who ran ALPA into the ditch on our property seldom take any responsibility for anything they did. Even the man just beaten in the Runoff election has a long song about how, even though he was the negotiating committee chairman when LOA 93 got rammed down our collective throats, it really wasn't his fault and he has a list of others to point his fingers at. No, none of those former ALPA tough guys nor their strong supporters (mostly CLT and BOS guys) take much responsibility for what they did, including their botched integration efforts. That whole group had turned into a bunch of wussies on ALPA Flight Pay Loss who had lost all grasp of just how badly they had failed this group over many, many years. All you ever got when you talked to any of them was a bunch of "Well, he said, and then she did, and let me tell you about what happened in Aspen, and four years ago at a meeting that guy stood up and said," and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.
No matter who you voted out the g'damn group would always end up acting like a bunch of idiots!
I know every one of you think it was just all about the Nic, and no matter how many of us tell you it wasn't your ears will be closed to it, but it's the truth: ALPA failed miserably here, and so pilots took responsibility for the whole mess by creating USAPA. Yeah, it ain't popular with you guys, and I'm personally very sorry about that. But that's where my apology ends. Somebody had to get control of our situation, because ALPA had lost its FU&%ING mind when it came to representing the professional pilots of US Airways (like Sully! )
We deserved better, and while it might not work, we are trying to create something better than that g'damn bureaucratic POS called ALPA that failed, repeatedly, to do its FU#&!NG JOB!!!!!!!

Oh by the way in case you missed it, DOH means NOTHING.

You have your own opinions that clearly advantage you, BUT ABOLUTELY NO ONE agrees with you!

Not Wake, Not NIC, Not ALPA, Not the company (they did accept the NIC)

 

[cactusboy53]

"Cactusboy53, I personally don't understand why any of you guys would have been satisfied with a 3% raise. See, in my book that shouldn't fly...."


Did I say we would be 'satisfied' with a 3% increase (ever)???? NO! AGAIN FOR THE CHEAP SEATS....I said this was Kirby's first offer. Of course you may have been blinded by your "lottery ticket":erm: of DATE OF HIRE.

You are right. 3% at the time it was offered would not have flown. Now?? Well it's hard to say. I am tickled to death to have a job right now. I am sickened that AWA pilots that had job' s before this train wreck occurred are now furloughed out of seniority order (and yes, I am now talking about both the 'third list' AND the Nicolau list).

April 28th is now just 28.1 short days away. We'll see what the courts have to say.

BTW...you are sounding stressed if not angry. Take a day off and spend some time with your family. It may put things in perspective. I had a great 2.3 days at home, and will be sipping iced tea in PHX by the pool tomorrow.

 

[cactusboy53]

"For the record I've never felt nor seen expressed this mythical "pariah" syndrome you all talk about on here. Every jumpseat I've been on, and in every other circumstance where I've spoken with pilots from other airlines they have expressed curiosity, admiration, congratulations, but nothing negative whatsoever about our independent union....."


So, there I was jumpseating from DFW to my home airport. The captain on the aircraft that I was seeking transport asked me if I was "East or West". I replied that I was original Cactus. He asked if he could see my ID badge.

Upon inspection he was pleased to find proof that I was indeed "original Cactus". He said "Good, I don't give rides to Xxxx's"(you fill in the X's, because I don't want to be banned for use of improper name-calling).:smash:

 

[PHXFLYR]

Strange, Haven't met one capt. on the east side that's sorry that alpa is gone. Oh your on the west, I'm sure you have the inside scoop of what's really going on...sorry

That's funny because I have and as a matter of fact, we do....


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Anyone with a vote, something to consider: For many pilots, their only exposure to M. Cleary is his rant on the crewnews video on the Hub a few sessions ago. Poor showing, for sure.

But you should research his opponent's history and current intentions before judging Cleary unfit. Mowery's pretty proud of what was already negotiated by the old JNC, and you should know that he will want the NAC to move in that direction. That's WEAK! Don't let this happen, because it won't be good for any of us. His "constituency" is the senior east guy, who feel they can't wait for a legitamatly negotiated deal. They want their 20% raise NOW, and don't care what it does to the junior, to the work rules, to the reserves.

It will be far easier to temper Cleary's rough edges than it will be to change Doug's "where do I sign" mentality.

Over and out.

No it wasn't . It was an opening position ...and then you guys upped and walked away from the negotiating table in a hissy fit. It would have been weak if that was the TA that was bought back to the pilot group for us to vote on ,but we never got that far now ,did we ?? Shheeesh ....you guys never cease to amaze me in your interpretation of events that have transpired . Looking forward to watching your boy implode and your 'union' along with him....


PHXFLYR

 

[Bringupthebird]

Then LOA 93 will be the surviving contract and you will have sued yourselves into concessions.

Why peddle fear and intimidation when you could be leading?

It would not surprise me at all to see the short-sighted USAPA vindictively allow the company to implement LOA93 as a joint contract, just to punish the west for their victory and toss Cleary's supporters more red meat. The day the vitriol dies down and clear heads prevail, Cleary clearly won't be needed.

The only fly in the caustic USAPA balm is that the company will be loathe to involve itself in any activity that appears to tie itself to what could be determined at a later date to be improper. The company wiggled out of being linked to USAPA's DFR and any splashback with respect to damage awards, so they are sensitive as to how snuggly they want to get in bed with USAPA. Next time it could get expensive.

Long story short- USAPA has never needed nor desired a legal mechanism to get what it wants. It sins in haste and repents at leisure. Well the 28th of April will tell how well that strategy has worked for them.

 

[LearLove]

Just out of curiosity lets say that judge wake does rule in favor of the west and let's say he orders immediate implementation of the Nic Award. What then MCDU? What will you do then. Have you thought about that possibility? Just curious

then we will take nic put it into your bylaws then make a motion to change the new bylaws, vote on it and change the bylaws back to DOH. Simple as that. While east has more pilots than west it will always be this way.

No judge can tell us what to do with our own union.

 

[Ocity]

then we will take nic put it into your bylaws then make a motion to change the new bylaws, vote on it and change the bylaws back to DOH. Simple as that. While east has more pilots than west it will always be this way.

No judge can tell us what to do with our own union.

The Delusions never end....

 

[TWA Dude]

No judge can tell us what to do with our own union.

You're right. A judge can't dictate what USAPA does with its C&BLs or CBAs. What he can do is issue an injunction ordering $1 million a day fine as long as USAPA continues to fail to represent the West. Who do you think is smarter: Judge Wake or counselor Seham?

 

[BeCareful!]

So, there I was jumpseating from DFW to my home airport. The captain on the aircraft that I was seeking transport asked me if I was "East or West". I replied that I was original Cactus. He asked if he could see my ID badge.

Upon inspection he was pleased to find proof that I was indeed "original Cactus". He said "Good, I don't give rides to Xxxx's"(you fill in the X's, because I don't want to be banned for use of improper name-calling).:smash:

So, there I was jumpseating from ORD to my home airport. The captain asked me if I was one of those "picket line crossing" west pilots who took his friend's job down under many year's back. I replied that I was real US Air, showed him my ID, and he said "Good, I don't give rides to Xxxx's"


Good story, CatusBoy....pretty easy to make up a story like that. If any of us had even a hint of that sort of behavior from pilots at other airlines, perhaps I'd believe you. Enjoy your life here on FI.com

 

[PHXFLYR]

The Delusions never end....

True....but they are very entertaining

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

So, there I was jumpseating from ORD to my home airport. The captain asked me if I was one of those "picket line crossing" west pilots who took his friend's job down under many year's back. I replied that I was real US Air, showed him my ID, and he said "Good, I don't give rides to Xxxx's"


Good story, CatusBoy....pretty easy to make up a story like that. If any of us had even a hint of that sort of behavior from pilots at other airlines, perhaps I'd believe you. Enjoy your life here on FI.com

A 'hint ?' Kind of hard to get a "hint" when you let raw emotion stand in your way.


PHXFLYR

 

[LearLove]

You're right. A judge can't dictate what USAPA does with its C&BLs or CBAs. What he can do is issue an injunction ordering $1 million a day fine as long as USAPA continues to fail to represent the West. Who do you think is smarter: Judge Wake or counselor Seham?

USAPA doesn't represent the "east" or "west". It represents the pilots of US Airways.

 

[AutoBus]

USAPA doesn't represent the "east" or "west". It represents the pilots of US Airways.

For now maybe, that too will change, Soon.

 

[cactusboy53]

Good story, CatusBoy....pretty easy to make up a story like that. If any of us had even a hint of that sort of behavior from pilots at other airlines, perhaps I'd believe you. Enjoy your life here on FI.com

BC;
When it comes to our little skirmish, I don't make up stories. That is for when I'm estimating the size of fish I caught or the distance (and direction) that my golf ball went.

Perhaps your cadre of pilots are so blinded by USAPA, that even the most not-so subtle hint would be missed.

Have a blessed and wonderful day.

 

[AutoBus]

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Pilots at US Airways Group Inc. say the company has rejected their request to bring in the National Mediation Board to help them reach an agreement.



The board regulates labor relations at airlines. The US Airline Pilots Association said Thursday that the company said it would support getting help from the federal board if it becomes appropriate in the future. The union says negotiations began in November 2005 and questioned whether the company is sincere in trying to make a deal.
The current US Airways is a combination of that company and America West. But its 5,000 pilots still fly under separate union contracts.



I guess the union representing the EAST pilots failed again.