Usapa has to go.

[olympus593]

As an east guy, Usapa has to go, I can't tolerate loa 93 for another xxxx amount of year. Just my opinion. Somebody start a card drive to get alpa back.

 

[Bringupthebird]

ALPA would probably frac the vote and leave us union-less. But a new union with reasonable bipartisan leadership would likely deliver on what most pilots are looking for.

 

[AppBrookie]

Agreed, How about a union ran on reality, not emotion, and that goes for both sides of the Mississippi. ALPA won't float, too much bad blood. Courthouse Cleary has ran his course.

 

[Raoul Duke]

how about outsourcing it to Great Lakes union. They seem much more professional and qualified than USAPA.

 

[weasel_lips]

Teamsters?

 

[Lampshade]

There will be a card drive soon after Judge Silver rules this spring I would imagine. Any union will be better than USAPA but ALPA is the best option since a merger may be on the horizon. We will need ALPA's legal support because USAPA is flat broke financially and morally.

 

[reepicheep]

I think the vast majority are quite content to let it ride indefinitely. They have their DOH list, so far anyway. A fence going on 6 years now. Another year and attrition kicks in and all those upgrades go to east pilots. LOA 93 sucks but considering everyone was weeks away from unemployment in '05, not the worst possible outcome. And there is the growing belief that staving off nic. implementation 'till a possible AA merger might mean a do-over; a SLI starting from square one using the three lists.

No rush to dump USAPA. It is doing exactly what they intended it to do.

 

[LearLove]

I think the vast majority are quite content to let it ride indefinitely. They have their DOH list, so far anyway. A fence going on 6 years now. Another year and attrition kicks in and all those upgrades go to east pilots. LOA 93 sucks but considering everyone was weeks away from unemployment in '05, not the worst possible outcome. And there is the growing belief that staving off nic. implementation 'till a possible AA merger might mean a do-over; a SLI starting from square one using the three lists.

No rush to dump USAPA. It is doing exactly what they intended it to do.

winner winner chicken dinner

 

[FDJ2]

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. USAPA is broke not just financially and morally, but also structurally. You can try to reinvent the wheel again and form another "independent" union, but that takes time and would lack the resources to get things moving again in a positive direction.

The best course of action would be to follow the path that the FDX pilots did when they thought going independent would lead them to the promised land, and that's to realize that the experiment is a failure, and the best way to get back on track in the shortest time is to join ALPA again.

 

[waveflyer]

One of the main problems with the East pilots- convincing themselves of untruths. Isn't rationalization taught as a hazardous attitude. Ie: you know better, but are still falling prey to this emotional psych-trick.

Let's just say, the rest of the industry is NOT OK WITH THE EAST JUST LETTING IT RIDE- You're affecting everyone now that it's gone on this long- undercutting the entire f^cking profession- do you hear that?
Honestly, do you even know the groundswell of resentment building towards you industry-wide- the AA bk has made this stand intolerable.

And it's so stupid- you're giving up way more money than you'll ever get in receiving these short lived upgrades.

I think the vast majority are quite content to let it ride indefinitely. They have their DOH list, so far anyway. A fence going on 6 years now. Another year and attrition kicks in and all those upgrades go to east pilots. LOA 93 sucks but considering everyone was weeks away from unemployment in '05, not the worst possible outcome. And there is the growing belief that staving off nic. implementation 'till a possible AA merger might mean a do-over; a SLI starting from square one using the three lists.

No rush to dump USAPA. It is doing exactly what they intended it to do.

 

[flygirlqt]

might mean a do-over; a SLI starting from square one using the three lists.

No rush to dump USAPA. It is doing exactly what they intended it to do.

Whoever from USAPA or outside counsel is giving that advice needs to be drawn and quartered. No one will take on the liability of not using an SLI from an already previously agreed upon binding process. The potential for litigation is to great to ignore.

Your second sentence only highlights and clarifies the unethical behavior and goals of USAPA.

 

[surfnfly]

[.

Let's just say, the rest of the industry is NOT OK WITH THE EAST JUST LETTING IT RIDE- You're affecting everyone now that it's gone on this long- undercutting the entire f^cking profession- do you hear that?
Honestly, do you even know the groundswell of resentment building towards you industry-wide- the AA bk has made this stand intolerable.

It's always easier to tell someone else what to do when you're not in their shoes. Funny how quick they change their tune when something affects them personally.ALPA will never see light of day here again, Teamsters who knows but ALPO is history here.

 

[OPECJet]

Ask a Netjets pilot how the Teamsters worked out there....

 

[IBNAV8R]

Binding will still equal binding.

 

[Flybywire44]

Hopefully, APA will replace both USAPA and Leonids roles in a couple years.

 

[ultrarunner]

As an east guy, Usapa has to go, I can't tolerate loa 93 for another xxxx amount of year. Just my opinion. Somebody start a card drive to get alpa back.

Sit down with West and get a single CBA, and you'll have your votes for ALPA AND more money.

Oh, wait, you don't like Nic....

Awww....

oh well...

enjoy

 

[cactusboy53]

As an east guy, Usapa has to go, I can't tolerate loa 93 for another xxxx amount of year. Just my opinion. Somebody start a card drive to get alpa back.

Oly;
I would ask the following questions:

1. How soon do you want a contract?
2. How much longer do you want to work under LOA 93?
3. How willing are you to get involved?

While voting out USAPA because it has been a dismal failure in its present form, the fact remains that WE could change the fabric and leadership of USAPA with enough votes in the next couple months. If we can accomplish that, we can move to change the CBL's and reconstruct the key committees (NAC, Merger, Communication, Grievance, etc) so as to return to the business of a new contract and a potential merger.


All of this can be done in less than 6 months. A card drive will last at least that long. Once a new CBA is voted in, it would take at least a year to reconstruct the hierarchy (ALPA for instance) and get back to the negotiating table. Waiting for ALPA to return and a new contract through ALPA would be a 1.5 to 3 year wait. That is TOO LONG!



While we await a new CBL drive, how about getting on board with changing USAPA into a TRUE INDEPENDENT UNION? Are you a MIG? That is the first step. Go to: www.reformusapa.com and complete the three petitions that help to change the CBA's constitution & bylaws.


Respectfully,
CB

 

[cactusboy53]

Teamsters?

Sure. Hey, do know that the Teamster position on arbitrations is? Teamsters state that all arbitrations are FINAL and BINDING.

 

[sniper]

ALPA wants nothing to do with Airways.

 

[Fubijaakr]

ALPA wants nothing to do with Airways.

Are you kidding? ALPA will take anyone who will pay the dues. They're 100% equal opportunity in that respect.

 

[eaglesview]

ALPA wants nothing to do with Airways.

That's a joke. My union (ALPA) forgave all the CO scabs, who flew EAL routes while I was on strike, and all the EAL scabs that CO was happy to hire just to collect the dues. ALPA has no morals.

 

[Ocity]

ALPA has no morals.

USAPA, at it's very core, is nothing but pure evil. The diabolical scabs that voted for it will forever deserve whatever misery they foisted upon themselves. Forget mercy Uscabians, That ship has forever sailed.

 

[Carl S.]

Time for East pilots to show some leadership. If you want off LOA 93, the ball is in your court! The West is going along for the ride, so I love when they bitch about LOA 93, yet do nothing but chase their tails about it. Could not happen to a better group of people, you reap what you sow.

 

[waveflyer]

[.

It's always easier to tell someone else what to do when you're not in their shoes. Funny how quick they change their tune when something affects them personally.ALPA will never see light of day here again, Teamsters who knows but ALPO is history here.

Don't pretend you're the only airline who's had to deal w/ a crappy merger/post 9/11 situation-

The argument is you'd be better off-
Yes- clearly- you need someone who isn't "in it" to tell you how wrong this stand is-

 

[ALGFLYR]

Whoever from USAPA or outside counsel is giving that advice needs to be drawn and quartered. No one will take on the liability of not using an SLI from an already previously agreed upon binding process. The potential for litigation is to great to ignore.

.....

Well IF LCC and AMR were to merge, and that's still highly speculative whether that will happen or not... Which seniority lists could be used for the integration? Let's look at that....

At this very moment, is the NIC award an official seniority list? No. That is a fact. The only official seniority lists at US Airways are the separate East and West lists, and the new hires (3rd listers). American's seniority list is uncontested, as is the 3rd list at Airways. So those two lists are good to go...

So the only question is what would be used for the East and West pilots...

Could an unofficial list (the Nic) be used? The only way the Nic list could ever become an official list is if it were ratified into a contract between USAPA and Airways management.... If a merger occurred and a new contract were negotiated between all the pilots and Airways/American management... The conditions that are required to solidify the Nic list could never be realized, thus the Nic could never become an official list... Just sayin...

 

[reepicheep]

And thus you have the next USAPA multi-million dollar wild goose chase. And who knows.....considering the (potential) parties involved...it could happen.

 

[flygirlqt]

Could an unofficial list (the Nic) be used? The only way the Nic list could ever become an official list is if it were ratified into a contract between USAPA and Airways management.... If a merger occurred and a new contract were negotiated between all the pilots and Airways/American management... The conditions that are required to solidify the Nic list could never be realized, thus the Nic could never become an official list... Just sayin...

As an attorney, I disagree with your premise.

 

[Crzipilot]

And how long have you been an attorney???? Or are you just back in school for such.

 

[ALGFLYR]

As an attorney, I disagree with your premise.

Well thank you... That really means a lot to me...

So as an attorney, you would advise a client to use and unofficial seniority list for a merger??

 

[waveflyer]

As an attorney, I disagree with your premise.

As the boyfriend of an attorney, we agree with your disagreement.

ALG- that's seriously bat-sh/t crazy.

How many BMWs have the east bought their attorneys? Hell, how many homes?
Somebody is continually selling a dream the east emotionally wants to believe.
Adds to how dumb this is(!)