Usapa has to go.

[Fubijaakr]

Mission statement:

http://www.usapa.org/aboutUSAPA/bylaws.html

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm curious, is USAPA funded well enough to litigate this indefinitely? I'd imagine they have invested million so far to avoid the JCBA, and keep their status-quo.

 

[cactusboy53]

I'm curious, is USAPA funded well enough to litigate this indefinitely? I'd imagine they have invested million so far to avoid the JCBA, and keep their status-quo.

Way off. USAPA gets between 9-10 Mil a year in dues & objector fees. The former lawyer that promised a "slam-dunk" w/ DOH, has since left. I think USAPA still owes that firm $$, and ANOTHER law firm is being used to look into the billing for those services. Still ANOTHER law firm tackled the NYC lawsuit against the company for status quo (last Spring). Even at that I believe we are in the hole, so to speak.

There may be one other law firm involved as well. In four years of delay, USAPA has spent well over 10,000,000.00 in various legal maneuvers. They also tried to sue 18+ AWA pilots for RICO charges (as in Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act!!!). That lawsuit was initially dismissed with PREJUDICE, so naturally USAPA APPEALED that decision and it was dismissed AGAIN.

It would be stinking hilarious if I weren't helping USAPA pay for this crap (it's either that or get fired for failing to pay union dues). uke:

The former AWA pilots have had to spend in excess of 2 Million dollars in personal funds alone on the defense of the DOH quest.

 

[johnnyb]

DONE. OVER. END OF STORY. COMPLETED. ..BUT we agreed to the process.

Just can't grasp the concept of membership ratification can we ?

PS Without it you have NOTHING AND NEVER WILL.

 

[BoilerUP]

Just can't grasp the concept of membership ratification can we ?

PS Without it you have NOTHING AND NEVER WILL.

Representative democracy within a collective bargaining organization, how does it work?

 

[johnnyb]

Everybody's equal - we all get 1 vote.

 

[cactusboy53]

Just can't grasp the concept of membership ratification can we ?

PS Without it you have NOTHING AND NEVER WILL.

Every bit as much as you can grasp "integrity", "final & binding", and one of my favorites: "We formed our union based on the principles of democracy, transparency and free thought." (although court testimony & documents state that the union was formed to evade / delay the Nicolau award).

One vote is right. Right after Judge Silver instructs LCC on what they may/may not do and if they will be held accountable in a hybrid DFR claim (if anything other than the Nicolau seniority list is used).

Then we can get REAL leadership, and REAL experienced negotiators to actually negotiate something equal to or superior to the AWA contract with perhaps DAL style wages.

We'll see if the majority of the east pilots are tired of the USAPA Circus and its ringmaster Mike Cleary. If not, then you can languish on your existing contract until you figure it out.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The company knows USAPA is on a fool's mission and is taking full advantage of it. Till the East pilots are ready to accept what they signed up for, the company will play them and LOA 93 will rule. The ball is in the East pilot's court, do not blame ANYONE but yourselfs for where you stand.

That's the feeling I get. LCC management is benefiting from the Eastie's self-imposed B scale.

 

[cactusboy53]

This seemed to be the best place to put this information:

Fellow LCC aviators;
ReformUSAPA is a website that was created for the sole purpose of changing the USAPA Constitution & Bylaws. If you had gone to the website previously (www.reformusapa.com) and completed the petitions in the past, they have EXPIRED.

With the potential of new USAPA leadership, we are again ramping up the efforts to legally change USAPA to be a union for all LCC pilots. Please go to the website. Read the home page, and bring up the petitions (there are three). Even if you disagree with the Nicolau seniority arbitration, the other two are positive changes to make our union MORE democratic (and LESS autocratic). Even if you are wishing to return to ALPA (or go to some other CBA), you should do this while you wait for that change.

Thank you for taking the time to review this information.

Regards,
CB

 

[Bringupthebird]

Are you running for USAPA pres?

 

[cactusboy53]

Are you running for USAPA pres?

No. Way above my pay grade & needed intelligence level.

 

[Carl S.]

The vote for USAPA president will be a good indicator if the AFO club still is pulling the strings out East in a few months. DJ filings due today, should be fun reading from USAPA about what the DJ is NOT about.

 

[Metrojet]

The vote for USAPA president will be a good indicator if the AFO club still is pulling the strings out East in a few months. DJ filings due today, should be fun reading from USAPA about what the DJ is NOT about.

AFO Club out EAST

What about the IWMA330 club out West? for those of you unfamiliar with them - "I Want My A 330 seat" . Yup thats fair - 8 year west fo's should be flying the A330 -

Metrojet

 

[Bringupthebird]

No, 8-yr F/O should equate to somewhere around the 50th percentile of F/O's and should be flying whatever that seniority can hold. If it's A330, then so be it.

That why it's called a seniority integration. How long you've been here is irrelevant. Disappointing, yes, but still irrelevant.

 

[Guppiedriver]

AFO Club out EAST

What about the IWMA330 club out West? for those of you unfamiliar with them - "I Want My A 330 seat" . Yup thats fair - 8 year west fo's should be flying the A330 -

Metrojet

What is so unfair about an 8 year west F/O bidding A330 F/O?

 

[Metrojet]

No, 8-yr F/O should equate to somewhere around the 50th percentile of F/O's and should be flying whatever that seniority can hold. If it's A330, then so be it.

That why it's called a seniority integration. How long you've been here is irrelevant. Disappointing, yes, but still irrelevant.

Yup - I totally agree how "disappointing" it is for all the West guys with that attitude - "We Won - You Lost - tough sh_t!".

And your also right about "irrelevant" since the majority is not going to sign on for any contract that incorporates the Nic in its current form (even if the DJ goes against the east - it isn't going to take away my right to vote)

Metrojet

 

[Carl S.]

Metrojet, AFO club still going strong!!! I do not care if a new hire gets A330 or the A350 when they come, you get what you can hold. Should everyone at USAirways stagnate till all 1986 to 1999 AAA hires upgrade to the heavy E190? The world does not rotate around your sorry aviation path, but hold on tight to your no vote and watch the world pass you by....

 

[cactusboy53]

Yup - I totally agree how "disappointing" it is for all the West guys with that attitude - "We Won - You Lost - tough sh_t!".

And your also right about "irrelevant" since the majority is not going to sign on for any contract that incorporates the Nic in its current form (even if the DJ goes against the east - it isn't going to take away my right to vote)

Metrojet

No one "won". "WE" three parties (management, west & east) agreed upon the merger process. The arbitrator rendered his decision based on testimony provided and input from the pilot neutrals. List delivered by collective bargaining agent to the NEW US Airways. List remains on Doug's desk, as one party chose to attempt to evade final product of process.

AFTER the courts instruct the company on what they may/may not do and what they may/may not be liable for (I know, USAPA will spend money they DON'T have and appeal - big surprise). Then the company will inform USAPA that what ever tentative agreement that is negotiated WILL include the Nic.

The beauty of contract ratification is that I have one vote. You have one vote. Vote NO until you can reach the moon. I will vote based on the TA's overall improvement to my life and lifestyle.

2012 could be an interesting year. We'll see......

 

[becket]

No one "won". "WE" three parties (management, west & east) agreed upon the merger process. The arbitrator rendered his decision based on testimony provided and input from the pilot neutrals. List delivered by collective bargaining agent to the NEW US Airways. List remains on Doug's desk, as one party chose to attempt to evade final product of process.

AFTER the courts instruct the company on what they may/may not do and what they may/may not be liable for (I know, USAPA will spend money they DON'T have and appeal - big surprise). Then the company will inform USAPA that what ever tentative agreement that is negotiated WILL include the Nic.

The beauty of contract ratification is that I have one vote. You have one vote. Vote NO until you can reach the moon. I will vote based on the TA's overall improvement to my life and lifestyle.

2012 could be an interesting year. We'll see......

Why do these East Lunatics think that they were playing a zero sum game for "pinks". There was NO LOSER. These brain damaged Easties still cannot grasp the most basic details of this Merger. Actually, they REFUSE to acknowledge the truth....a very different thing.

 

[Bringupthebird]

And your also right about "irrelevant" since the majority is not going to sign on for any contract that incorporates the Nic in its current form (even if the DJ goes against the east - it isn't going to take away my right to vote)

Metrojet

No, you will retain your vote, but you will have an increasingly difficult time getting others to vote NO with you since doing so is an endorsement of USAPA's failed strategy.

Oh, and it costs them thousands per year.

 

[Fubijaakr]

No. Way above my pay grade & needed intelligence level.

Given the history of USAPA leadership, a paramecium would qualify.

 

[cactusboy53]

Why do these East Lunatics think that they were playing a zero sum game for "pinks". There was NO LOSER. These brain damaged Easties still cannot grasp the most basic details of this Merger. Actually, they REFUSE to acknowledge the truth....a very different thing.

This is why the upcoming election is SO IMPORTANT for anyone that sees USAPA for what it currently is. Balloting takes place starting February 2-23, 2012. The people elected take office on April 18, 2012 (2 year office).

All members in good standing (MIGS) should take the time to see who ends up on the ballot, and open their hearts and minds to the communications from the nominees. BTW, you have until the afternoon of February 23rd to get into MIG status and vote!

If you want a contract sooner rather than later, look at the platforms and plans of the nominees. Look at the leadership skills these people possess and demonstrate. Vote with logic and common sense.

If you want status quo and LOA 93 for the rest of your career, keep voting with raw emotion.

 

[Hpilot]

Yup - I totally agree how "disappointing" it is for all the West guys with that attitude - "We Won - You Lost - tough sh_t!".

And your also right about "irrelevant" since the majority is not going to sign on for any contract that incorporates the Nic in its current form (even if the DJ goes against the east - it isn't going to take away my right to vote)

Metrojet

I think it is a little premature for you to assume what the majority will vote for. More and more east pilots are beginning to see that the only way toward a new contract is to accept the Nic. No, I don't think the Nic was fair, but neither is DOH in our merger situation. Quite frankly I hope you're right, because I don't want to move to PHL or CLT. Maybe the courts will allow the company to negotiate seniority without liability, we'll have to see.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Whoever from USAPA or outside counsel is giving that advice needs to be drawn and quartered. No one will take on the liability of not using an SLI from an already previously agreed upon binding process. The potential for litigation is to great to ignore.

Your second sentence only highlights and clarifies the unethical behavior and goals of USAPA.

...funny thing with him saying that is he's one of the furloughed easties we hired shortly after the merger was announced. Nice touch, huh ...?


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

And the morale of the story is......they should have let USAir sink, and eat the pickings...

"A-fn-men", brother !!

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

I was picking up the release in CLT this morning when an east CA, who was non-reving in back, came up to me, introduced himself and said:

"I am an AOL contributor."

"Most of the rhetoric you hear from out here is from a very vocal, very loud, minority. These idiots have cost all of us a tremendous amount of money and you should no there is a sizable contingent of us who are done with this."

It went back and forth and I opined that I expected little to happen (contract wise) until we were involved in another merger. This is where he said something that really shocked me; "Maybe in the next merger we can put some of us in the east on the bottom of the combined list where they belong."

I have heard about these types of conversations taking place but this is the first one I have had.

Know how an eastie is lying ???


His lips are moving.

Take what these clowns say with a grain of salt.

PHXFLYR