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USAPA files with NMB!

  • Thread starter Thread starter ALGFLYR
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In other words, we all know that you guys will get to cash those lottery tickets soon enough, even without ALPA. I certainly expect that's how it will go down.

Even so, I'll be voting to rid us of ALPA. Enough is more than enough. F&%$ them!


yeah i'm just itching all over to cash my lottery ticket and commute coast to coast to be a junior PHL CA making less than a freakin SWA First Officer!! I know this might bruise some egos on the east but you guys aren't exactly the prize airline you consider yourselves to be. The only reason the west seems to be chomping at the bit is because we are sick and tired of sub-standard wages and we want to get some contractual gains before the window closes.

We refuse to discuss fences because that was not part of the award and it can only harm us in the long run. Very few of us want to migrate east yet who knows whether doug might decide to shrink the west someday? Obviously we have no desire to limit our options. I don't think many on the west care about your 9 prized A330's and you can have em all for all i care. But don't kid yourselve that we think we won powerball with the nic award. Us Airways is still a marginal airline with an uncertain future and a crappy contract. Not to mention some of the most hard headed, bitter empoloyees in the industry.
 
I agree with TWA Dude. Let’s get this over with. Let the NMB review the cards and hold the election. The quicker we get past this the better. If USAPA fails, Prater will give Management the Nic list immediately and that will start the ball rolling towards another round of contract negotiations, and at least we will move forward. If USAPA passes, the West can loath the East and we will be totally dysfunctional for years to come. Time to stop the procrastination. All of the merger goodwill by the West is squandered due to the East’s temper-tantrum over the Nicolau Award. It was binding arbitration, but they didn’t get what they wanted so now let’s burn the house down to get our way. If it comes at the expense of the America West pilots, so be it. Well 1800 West pilot are not just going to sit back and watch the company implode. We were business partners for a new enterprise, the new US Airways, but no longer. East will tell you USAPA is not about Nicolau but nobody wanted to throw ALPA out in 2004/2005/2006. Only in May of 2007, after Nic, did East decide ALPA was the root of all evil.

The two days of talks (Thursday and Friday of this week) in Denver produced nothing new. All MEC and LEC members were there with no lawyers (and no ALPA) but no progress was made. The East wants what they want period and don’t know how/can’t/won’t negotiate to get it … just like on the Nicolau mediation/arbitration issue …. it is our East way or the highway. They want Nic thrown out and to start all over …. Just not going to happen. Time for negotiation was 18 months ago.

So let’s get the election on. 1758/59 dudes/dudettes out West know that ALPA is better than USAPA. We’ve got one or two loonies that are mired in anger and will vote USAPA for spite. There are an untold number of East guys who are stuck in hatred as well. ALPA is not perfect, but USAPA is doomed from the start on this kind of East driven agenda. How many guys out East will really vote for USAPA …? Let’s get the election going and find out. Not enough to pass is my prediction.

I agree that soon Parker will find the East pilots in material breech of the Transition Agreement by their failure to negotiate for a joint contract in good faith. Once that happens, nothing can protect the East pilots except ALPA representation. If it is Oil at $120.00 (or some other factor at his choosing), Parker will move airplanes from PHL and CLT to PHX and LAS and absorb pilots on the West side while letting the East slowly dissolve. Once he decides the East guys are in material breech of the Transition Agreement, all bets will be off and no West guy is going to stand up for East losses. The East guys have carried us to far down the river to turn back. He will fly East routes with East aircraft operated by West crews (governed by the 2004 America West CBA) who will do it on time and without wasted gas and who care about customer service for the New US Airways. If USAPA represents the East, no West guy will complain about management’s actions. Parker might even sell off East assets and then claim they are overmanned out East and because we have no combined list, he’ll furlough the excess East pilots and replace the expensive 17-20 year dudes with new hires out west. The East guys are gambling a lot, but this is an adult’s game and big chips are on the table. Of course the biggest winner is Management (IFLYHigh is right). Record Profits and Record Bonuses for them while we piss and moan over a extra few pennies each month.

Without ALPA, we will all be stapled on the bottom of someone else’s list if we merge with NW or UA. But the East guys are willing to gamble it all …. Crack smoking indeed.

New hires are definitely better by voting for ALPA and not USAPA. To vote for USAPA is to sear 1800 West pilots into animosity. We’ll see how many East guys will really decide that ALPA today is the best chance for an improved contract in the shortest period of time. That is money in a new hires pocket via the fastest possible route and we all know money talks.
 
Not from our point of view they can't. Like the saying goes... "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" We did not arrive at this conclusion without due cause.

This is a democratic process and if the majority of the pilots are unhappy with ALPA, then it is time for a changing of the guard.

We can do better with an independant union.

You can do better if you would recall the A$$holes
running Council 41. ALPA isn't your problem,they are. Can't believe you guys are too stupid to pick up on that fact:rolleyes:


PHXFLYR:cool:
 
In other words, we all know that you guys will get to cash those lottery tickets soon enough, even without ALPA. I certainly expect that's how it will go down.

Even so, I'll be voting to rid us of ALPA. Enough is more than enough. F&%$ them!


So your going to decertify the union that put the Jets for Jobs program together that allowed you to continue flying while furloughed,all at the expense of some poor senior PSA F/O probably getting ready to upgrade? Nice move.Wonder if USAPA will be able to put something together like that for you next time you get axed.....

PHXFLYR:cool:
 
Well they can't do any worse than ALPA....


Oh really? Would they have been able to set up the same sort of program that allowed you to get out of that clapped out Dash 8 you were flying for years into a brand new EM170 which resulted in you landing up with a mainline senority number? Well ,would they??


PHXFLYR:cool:
 
New hires are definitely better by voting for ALPA and not USAPA. To vote for USAPA is to sear 1800 West pilots into animosity. We’ll see how many East guys will really decide that ALPA today is the best chance for an improved contract in the shortest period of time. That is money in a new hires pocket via the fastest possible route and we all know money talks.

Nope! A joint contract is going to result in furloughs for the newhires (on BOTH sides). It is in their best interest to have seperate operations.
 
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Nope! A joint contract is going to result in furloughs for the newhires (on BOTH sides). It is in their best interest to have seperate opeations.

And hope that West pilots (we haven't gotten newhires yet) get the ax instead of a newbie? Can't wait to start working with you. You really are a d-bag.
 
Nope! A joint contract is going to result in furloughs for the newhires (on BOTH sides). It is in their best interest to have seperate operations.


where did you come up with that? Massive attrition and aircraft on order yet we're going to furlough? Last year we made half a Billion in profit and this year we're already up $500+milliion with a strong fourth quarter to come and you think Parker is working on furloughs? Even if LCC further downsized the attrition would make up for any shrinkage. The only conceivable scenario I can think of that would result in furloughs would be a merger. I can't imagine any carrier out there would be interested in hitching up with a bunch of disgruntled half crazed employees.

The ONLY pilots who could conceivably benefit from USAPA would be junior east fo's who feel scr#wed by the Nic award and could potentially upgrade out of seniority through a delayed implementation. Guys like Weasel, ALGFLYR, and BECAREFUL. Newhires would remain at the bottom either way and would look forward to several years without a paycut and getting stapled to the bottom in any future merger as the stated policy with USAPA will be DOH.
 
Nope! A joint contract is going to result in furloughs for the newhires (on BOTH sides). It is in their best interest to have seperate operations.

Bull********************, we heard that on the west with our last contract from some of our number nuts, who just happened to have an axe to grind. Your statement looks to me to be more axe grinding than anything else.
 
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Nope! A joint contract is going to result in furloughs for the newhires (on BOTH sides). It is in their best interest to have seperate operations.

Now Weasel ... how do you come up with that? Please outline some rational for our new hires instead of trying to spread fear and disinformation. But rhetoric is all we get from the East, ya'll won't come to the table, and your MEC wouldn't even negotiate last week. "Let's get ours so the West can't" is now a broken record.

Again for the new hires. 190 pay according to the transition agreement is 41.22 an hour as an FO. Once you move to Gp II equipment (737, 320) [year 2] at AWA you make 61.41 (East is 57.00). Year 3 is 68.36 at AWA and 62 on the East. The guarantee at AWA is 78 a month and on the East it is 72. So a new hire has a tremendous financial incentive to vote for ALPA and a joint agreement rather than be mired in your LOA 93 contract which can't even be talked about until December 2008. USAPA has no plan for getting out from under LOA 93 and Management isn't interested in that. Plan on working under 93 for about three years after that (2011/2012). We out West will make thousands more why the East continues to argue how unfair the Nic Award was. A new hire cares about where he will be in 12-36 months not some dream about what used to be out East. Tell us all how the new hires will be furloughed with ALPA and a joint contract?
 
Questions from someone waiting for an interview. All assuming no merger, company remains profitable, and no age 65 consideration, and the pilot integration takes forever to happen. No flaming please, just objective answers and/or best guesses.

1. If newhires fly the 190 out of PHL, will they follow the east contract and payrates? Once they transition to another aircraft, is their pay and contract based on their domicile? And if so, do you switch payrate/contract rules each time you switch domiciles?

2. What is the attrition rate each year? Are we talking a couple hundred per year for the next 5-10 years? Will a pilot in his early 40's ever have a decent left seat schedule, or can he bank on reserve left seat as his ultimate goal?

3. Can a pilot expect upgrade in less than 10 years?
 
Nope! A joint contract is going to result in furloughs for the newhires (on BOTH sides). It is in their best interest to have seperate operations.

You are either ignorant or drunk because a new contract will cause a massive hiring of pilots to the east. Why? because there will be work rules that will require more rest along with better duty/trip rigs all these will require more pilots.
 
So your going to decertify the union that put the Jets for Jobs program together that allowed you to continue flying while furloughed,all at the expense of some poor senior PSA F/O probably getting ready to upgrade?

And therein lies the rub...

Were it not for the J4J program to allow all those shinny new jets to be operated at PSA, that senior FO would have been unemployed when PSA went away... Those 328's were already living on borrowed time...
 
Oh really? Would they have been able to set up the same sort of program that allowed you to get out of that clapped out Dash 8 you were flying for years into a brand new EM170 which resulted in you landing up with a mainline senority number? Well ,would they??


PHXFLYR:cool:

You get what you negotiate. I was on the ALG MEC when the deal was made to allow WO pilots to go to MDA. When the company realized they F'ed up and would really need pilots to staff MDA, they came to us desprerately trying to re-negotiate the terms of us going over. That didn't happen.

As for my original comment about we can't do any worse....

If you look at the 18 year ALPA dues paying member getting stapled to the bottom, it really didn't matter that he was ALPA...

Scerario 1: Be at a non-union airline for 18 years and merge with an ALPA carrier (AWA) and get stapled...

Scenario 2: Be at an ALPA carrier and pay thousands upon thousands of dollars in dues and merge with an ALPA carrier (AWA) and get stapled...

What did ALPA do for these pilots???
 

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