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USAPA: Downfall is coming from within!
- Thread starter T2Bus
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Crzipilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2002
- Posts
- 1,057
Another ounce of false information. No union wants to deal with usapa? hmmm....interesting...
CAPA is a trade association comprised of over 28,000 professional pilots. CAPA's purpose is to address safety, security, legislative and regulatory issues affecting the professional flight deck crew member on matters of common interest to the individual member unions. The five members of CAPA are:
American
Independent Pilots Association (IPA)
UPS
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA)
Southwest
Teamsters Local 1224
ABX Air
US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA)
US Airways
CAPA is a trade association comprised of over 28,000 professional pilots. CAPA's purpose is to address safety, security, legislative and regulatory issues affecting the professional flight deck crew member on matters of common interest to the individual member unions. The five members of CAPA are:
Union
Airline
Allied Pilots Association (APA) American
Independent Pilots Association (IPA)
UPS
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA)
Southwest
Teamsters Local 1224
ABX Air
US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA)
US Airways
captairbusbb
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 17, 2005
- Posts
- 90
The sole purpose of usapa's birth was to overthrow a federally arbitrated seniority list.
APA, IPA UPS, SWAPA Teamsters Local 224, ABX, and USAPA, do not represent the West.
CAPA does not give one SHIITE about usapa......They all know your motive was to put the west under the bus. They know that you usapa supporters are all about yourselves and that is why you have only approximately 100 west members in "good" standing. What does that tell you about solidarity and unification?
If you think CAPA is looking out for your well being and support, you are smoking some pretty damn good crack.
You and Mcdoosh are on the same page...........I'm truly sorry that you couldn't find another job while you were furloghed and you tried to recapture your lost position at the expense of the westyz, but NIC, Judge Wake, and the RICO lawsuit all seem to think that the merger was not your WINDFALL to steal jobs from gainfully employed people.
You need to stop listening to cleary and admit that your dues you are paying to an experimental association are going directly to Seham.
But send them your dues anyway............In the 14 months of usapa's inception, ask yourself..........where has it gotten me? Nowhere. No new contract, no DOH, no unity, No nothing. Only the extention of LOA 93.
You keep losing and only promise an appeal......Guess where the appeal is going!!
You can thank the good Hero "Sully" for the admittance into CAPA. CAPA thought they can get more respect on the hill if they counted the hero in their ranks...
Speedtape
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2004
- Posts
- 1,973
Watching from the sidelines, it's time to end the madness! Everyone is getting hurt. There is no bad time to recall bad leadership!
Many promises were made, nothing has happened but gridlock! Purge the bad leadership and focus on what two former great pilot groups can accomplish when pulling on the same end of the rope! Don't allow the majority to be ruled by the minority. Right now, your situation is equivalent to being lost in the desert for 40 years. Nothing will change until good men and good leadership take action.
As an offline ALPA member, we want you back! We are stronger with you, and you are stronger with access to the ALPA Toolbox!
Many promises were made, nothing has happened but gridlock! Purge the bad leadership and focus on what two former great pilot groups can accomplish when pulling on the same end of the rope! Don't allow the majority to be ruled by the minority. Right now, your situation is equivalent to being lost in the desert for 40 years. Nothing will change until good men and good leadership take action.
As an offline ALPA member, we want you back! We are stronger with you, and you are stronger with access to the ALPA Toolbox!
It's time to throw out the thugs who have denied both pilot groups out of a good contract and labor peace. But, Cleary and his merry men in green panties don't want that. They just want DOH that gives them more numbers from being displaced to the street. What does Final and Binding mean when both sides signed the paper! Judge Wake knows! Why is it OK to place a 23 year Captain in the top 10% of his list (...all time in the left seat) to a mid range FO in the 49% level. Not cool....
This was the goal of the merger:
ALPA Merger Policy specifies 5 goals for seniority list integration.
They are, in no particular order:
Preserve jobs.
Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.
ALPA Merger Policy makes no mention of date of hire or any other method of achieving these goals. The Merger Representatives must determine which method or combinations of methods best meet the goals. The goals all address what your seniority will buy upon integration and into the future. This is the yardstick of fairness by which any proposed method of integration must be judged. When you meet America West pilots, be as welcoming as you can. Remember that the seniority list integration will not be accomplished in the jump seat, the crew room, web boards or the hotel van. Trust the process and trust your merger team to do the very best job we can in protecting the best interests of all US Airways pilots.
ALPA Merger Policy specifies 5 goals for seniority list integration.
They are, in no particular order:
Preserve jobs.
Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.
ALPA Merger Policy makes no mention of date of hire or any other method of achieving these goals. The Merger Representatives must determine which method or combinations of methods best meet the goals. The goals all address what your seniority will buy upon integration and into the future. This is the yardstick of fairness by which any proposed method of integration must be judged. When you meet America West pilots, be as welcoming as you can. Remember that the seniority list integration will not be accomplished in the jump seat, the crew room, web boards or the hotel van. Trust the process and trust your merger team to do the very best job we can in protecting the best interests of all US Airways pilots.
The ALPA Arbitration Board
-------------------------------------------------------------x
In the Matter of the Seniority Integration of
The Pilots of US Airways, Inc.
and
The Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------x
The ALPA Arbitration Board
George Nicolau, Chairman
Captain Stephen Gillen, Pilot Neutral
Captain James P. Brucia, Pilot Neutral
APPEARANCES
For the US Airways Pilots:
Katz & Ranzman, P.C.
By: Daniel M. Katz, Esq.
Jason M. Whiteman. Esq.
For the America West Pilots:
Bredhoff & Kaiser, P.L.L.C.
By: Jeffrey R. Freund, Esq.
Roger Pollack, Esq.
Lisa Powell, Esq.
OPINION
AND
AWARD
On May 19, 2005, US Airways and America West Airlines
announced that they would merge, taking the name US Airways. Both
pilot groups were represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, which
has a Merger Policy goveming the integration of pilot seniority lists.
Pursuant to that Policy, each group chooses a Merger Committee,
whose representatives are charged with exchanging employment data
and seeking to determine a fair and equitable integration of their
respective lists.
2
The Policy, in pertinent part, provides as follows:
The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the
equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint
session, the merger representatives should attempt to
match equities to various methods of integration until a fair
and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the
following goals, in no particular order:
a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the
other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of
living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.
If the Merger Representatives are unable to agree on an
integrated list, the matter may be referred to Mediation-Arbitration or
directly to arbitration if the Representatives choose that path. In this
instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement
on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned
as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those
mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006,
were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the
arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a
Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting
member of the Arbitration Board.
-------------------------------------------------------------x
In the Matter of the Seniority Integration of
The Pilots of US Airways, Inc.
and
The Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------x
The ALPA Arbitration Board
George Nicolau, Chairman
Captain Stephen Gillen, Pilot Neutral
Captain James P. Brucia, Pilot Neutral
APPEARANCES
For the US Airways Pilots:
Katz & Ranzman, P.C.
By: Daniel M. Katz, Esq.
Jason M. Whiteman. Esq.
For the America West Pilots:
Bredhoff & Kaiser, P.L.L.C.
By: Jeffrey R. Freund, Esq.
Roger Pollack, Esq.
Lisa Powell, Esq.
OPINION
AND
AWARD
On May 19, 2005, US Airways and America West Airlines
announced that they would merge, taking the name US Airways. Both
pilot groups were represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, which
has a Merger Policy goveming the integration of pilot seniority lists.
Pursuant to that Policy, each group chooses a Merger Committee,
whose representatives are charged with exchanging employment data
and seeking to determine a fair and equitable integration of their
respective lists.
2
The Policy, in pertinent part, provides as follows:
The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the
equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint
session, the merger representatives should attempt to
match equities to various methods of integration until a fair
and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the
following goals, in no particular order:
a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the
other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of
living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.
If the Merger Representatives are unable to agree on an
integrated list, the matter may be referred to Mediation-Arbitration or
directly to arbitration if the Representatives choose that path. In this
instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement
on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned
as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those
mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006,
were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the
arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a
Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting
member of the Arbitration Board.
Another East Pilot ideas:
Op/Ed Hosted by Unbiased Facts
June 4, 2009
A Path Forward
By Guest Writer Tory Vaughan
To all,
Two years ago I heard about a group of pilots trying to stand up for what
they believed to be right and so I listened to what they had to say. They told
me that Date of Hire was the correct way to merge two airlines pilot
seniority lists and, at first, because I care about my fellow pilots, I supported
their efforts. However, after considering all involved I realized regardless of
how much one wants to support one's friends and fellow pilots that there was
more to consider. What kept bothering my soul was the fact that there was
an agreed-to process between the pilots of America West and US Airways.
Both sides knew that going into arbitration there was a chance they may lose
everything they sought. The time to discuss that process and what is the right
and wrong ways to merge seniority list was before the process began. Once
the process started it is time to honor one's agreements. The law of the
United States backs up these agreements made and I believe unless USAPA
can secede from the United States and appoint Lee Seham Attorney General,
USAPA will lose and fail its' members. In my opinion what is going to be
the largest problem for our pilot group in the future is that if USAPA
continues on its' present course, the pilot group is going to become even
more polarized than it is now. This will lead to an all out civil war and
USAPA will be forced into a corner. This will find USAPA in a situation to
call for a job action leading to a bad scenario for all pilots here.
The best solution in my opinion is to now negotiate a better contract for
ALL US Airways pilots. Items such as a new pay scale that gives credit for
years of service, a better reserve system that isn't the slave system that we
have now, more vacation days, and an improved retirement plan will
improve the quality of life for ALL US Airways pilots. USAPA must change
course if there is to be a successful outcome to our present situation.
Therefore, it is time for the pilots of US Airways to acknowledge
the truth that the law is going to back up the Nicolau award and demand a
change of course in USAPA strategy, or change CBA's.
It is time to realize that the courts don't (and can’t) care about what any
individual pilot feels is fair. The truth is there was an agreed - to process
before the seniority arbitration began and that is what is going to kill the
USAPA strategy in court. Short of seceding from the United States,
USAPA's present strategy will fail.
Respectfully submitted,
Tory Vaughan
Unbiased Facts can send you an email notice of additions to the Unbiased Facts web site. To subscribe to
this service, send an email to [email protected] and state subscribe in the subject line. To
unsubscribe, state unsubscribe. If you have an Article, Quick Fact or Op/Ed piece you think should be
published by Unbiased Facts, submit it to [email protected] Check www.unbiasedfacts.org for
updates often.
Op/Ed Hosted by Unbiased Facts
June 4, 2009
A Path Forward
By Guest Writer Tory Vaughan
To all,
Two years ago I heard about a group of pilots trying to stand up for what
they believed to be right and so I listened to what they had to say. They told
me that Date of Hire was the correct way to merge two airlines pilot
seniority lists and, at first, because I care about my fellow pilots, I supported
their efforts. However, after considering all involved I realized regardless of
how much one wants to support one's friends and fellow pilots that there was
more to consider. What kept bothering my soul was the fact that there was
an agreed-to process between the pilots of America West and US Airways.
Both sides knew that going into arbitration there was a chance they may lose
everything they sought. The time to discuss that process and what is the right
and wrong ways to merge seniority list was before the process began. Once
the process started it is time to honor one's agreements. The law of the
United States backs up these agreements made and I believe unless USAPA
can secede from the United States and appoint Lee Seham Attorney General,
USAPA will lose and fail its' members. In my opinion what is going to be
the largest problem for our pilot group in the future is that if USAPA
continues on its' present course, the pilot group is going to become even
more polarized than it is now. This will lead to an all out civil war and
USAPA will be forced into a corner. This will find USAPA in a situation to
call for a job action leading to a bad scenario for all pilots here.
The best solution in my opinion is to now negotiate a better contract for
ALL US Airways pilots. Items such as a new pay scale that gives credit for
years of service, a better reserve system that isn't the slave system that we
have now, more vacation days, and an improved retirement plan will
improve the quality of life for ALL US Airways pilots. USAPA must change
course if there is to be a successful outcome to our present situation.
Therefore, it is time for the pilots of US Airways to acknowledge
the truth that the law is going to back up the Nicolau award and demand a
change of course in USAPA strategy, or change CBA's.
It is time to realize that the courts don't (and can’t) care about what any
individual pilot feels is fair. The truth is there was an agreed - to process
before the seniority arbitration began and that is what is going to kill the
USAPA strategy in court. Short of seceding from the United States,
USAPA's present strategy will fail.
Respectfully submitted,
Tory Vaughan
Unbiased Facts can send you an email notice of additions to the Unbiased Facts web site. To subscribe to
this service, send an email to [email protected] and state subscribe in the subject line. To
unsubscribe, state unsubscribe. If you have an Article, Quick Fact or Op/Ed piece you think should be
published by Unbiased Facts, submit it to [email protected] Check www.unbiasedfacts.org for
updates often.
MCDU
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2003
- Posts
- 1,146
This coming from a 767 capt Tory Vaughan the III,who was not effected by the Nic award. Sen. number 586. He is a complete idiot. This is of no surprise. He wants more money and he loves the fact that he can still fly past 60. Greed. Pilot Greed.
USAPA has protected many East pilots from the street. With the Nic all furloughed pilots would be East with a 100% paycut and many East pilots would be flying the 190, while West pilots would be replacing East Jobs in East bases. Not having the Nic award implemented has saved many USAIR pilots their jobs in their bases and aircraft.
It has not been all bad for the lower part of USAIRS seniority list. Nic implemented would be devasting for the USAIR East F/O's. The Nic award places furloughed West pilots DOH 2005 ahead of 1988 East widebody postions and airbus line holders and 190 captains. This fence has been good for the F/O at the East operations. The longer they can create an artifical fence, the better of many will be until the retirements kick in in 3 plus years.
Too bad AWA did not merge with the growing airline Skybus a few years ago. Many planes on order and fast upgrades. Kind of like AWA after 9/11. Would have been a perfect fit, since AWA always wanted CMH and AWA pilots do no care about longevity.
Integrity=DOH
DOH= Workings of a real Union
M
USAPA has protected many East pilots from the street. With the Nic all furloughed pilots would be East with a 100% paycut and many East pilots would be flying the 190, while West pilots would be replacing East Jobs in East bases. Not having the Nic award implemented has saved many USAIR pilots their jobs in their bases and aircraft.
It has not been all bad for the lower part of USAIRS seniority list. Nic implemented would be devasting for the USAIR East F/O's. The Nic award places furloughed West pilots DOH 2005 ahead of 1988 East widebody postions and airbus line holders and 190 captains. This fence has been good for the F/O at the East operations. The longer they can create an artifical fence, the better of many will be until the retirements kick in in 3 plus years.
Too bad AWA did not merge with the growing airline Skybus a few years ago. Many planes on order and fast upgrades. Kind of like AWA after 9/11. Would have been a perfect fit, since AWA always wanted CMH and AWA pilots do no care about longevity.
Integrity=DOH
DOH= Workings of a real Union
M
Last edited:
MCDU
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2003
- Posts
- 1,146
How many West pilots are in good standing? They have no rights if Westies are a non union members in bad standing.
I guess its ok to furlough all east pilots, even though west jobs are being shed? East and West pilots have been furloughed. West wants a windfall where all furloughs are East.
M
I guess its ok to furlough all east pilots, even though west jobs are being shed? East and West pilots have been furloughed. West wants a windfall where all furloughs are East.
M
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