Usapa Doesn't Have It Together

[JoeMerchant]

NMB voting in progress. Not bad for broke grass roots USAPA. All ALPA preaches now is Fear. What are they doing? Protecting USAirways pilots from themselves? Or is it the loss of 12 million in dues per year to the mother ship. My hunch is it's the money. SWA, UPS, AirTran, APA...how on earth have they made it without ALPA I wonder?

ALPA hasn't spent this much effort on any of the real problems....they are trying to protect the dues money.....

 

[UALjan15]

So by your logic... Voting in USAPA doesn't change the Nic award.

Hmmm.. seems that is what was trying to be accomplished with the Rice Committee. So why the need for USAPA. What is USAPA going to do differently?

You get it, don't you? You're certainly on these boards enough to have picked up on the strategy by now! In the current ALPA environment there is a stalemate. East has packed their toys up and left the JNC, so no contract progress. And the Rice committee had as much luck as the merger committees had before the arbitration. East side can keep the Nic on the shelf, but that means LOA 03 forever. West's only way to a joint contract is to concede fences to Nic. Without the joint contract, west stagnation continues indefinitely. You'd think there would be enough motivation on both sides to get a deal done, but the USAPA drive has got in the way.

USAPA promises to break the logjam by "unifying" the two groups under one MEC, thereby giving up the dual ratification protections of the transition agreement. In theory, they go to mngt, negotiate a DOH list in exchange for a MESA-caliber contract, and then use the tyranny of the majority to cram it down the west's throats. Unfortunately, this plan relies on some dubious assumptions. First, they assume Parker can be bought and is stupid enough to embroil the company in years of litigation for backing out of a previously accepted arbitration award. Next, they ignore significant case law that clearly shows that the award is not going away and can't simply be replaced at the whims of the majority. Finally, they assume that they can ratify a bottom-of-the-industry contract even when it won't even come close to the terms offered by mngt in April '07.

End result? Not pretty. No seniority list agreement, no joint contract, LOA 93 indefinitely, and a big DFR lawsuit from the west. East pilots will be paying this "union" assessment bucks like a Vegas slot machine.

 

[TWA Dude]

The same way the APA, NPA, SWAPA, and IPA manage to fund themselves. Amazing that they're still around to this date!

Careful how much glee you take in ALPA's potential downfall. We TWA'ers would've loved for an arbitrator to have had a go at our integration with the APA. USAPA wants to undue the results of the fair process we engaged in. ALPA is the lesser of two evils here.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, why do you care so much about the 200? USAPA unlike ALPA has not been collecting dues for decades. So in order to get the coffers up to acceptable levels they need an early assessment. Of course unless your an idiot you know this. (by the way I dont think you are an idiot) I do however thing you are an ALPA cheerleader of the highest order, and your hundreds of posts proclaiming all the wonders of ALPA back that up.
You remind me of people ruled by a dictator that have nothing but the highest praise of their leader, no matter what the question. (from Airplane with gun to reporters head) "today a building burned down making way for a glorious new tractor factory"
Its become all quite comical.

Hardly.... if that is your perception. ALPA has many faults. We need to change ...yesterday. Same with our gov't. Shall we rid ourselves of the US Constitution are start something new? If so.. what?

That is the big question. What is the better deal? USAPA? Ok.. but what is so innovative about USAPA? So revolutionary?

The reason why I champion ALPA so much.. is not becuase it ALPA, but becuase it is all we have.

No one cares about Pilots except us pilots. And we can't even stay at our own table. We constantly divide and fight. And that is ALPA fault? No.. that is everyones fault. Is the insitution of marriage flawed? Does it take two spouses to fight?

We really do not take individual repsonsibility when participating in our careers.


So what happens when a people organization, like ALPA, screws up? Well many people quit. Leave the table, pack up their toys and go home.

What do you do in your own people organization... say your family? What do you do when your teenage kid screws up? reject him/her? Sure it is easier to walk away....

Rez...there are alot of US Air pilots that would gladly pay 200...500 whatever to get rid of ALPA...It's really not that much money in today's day and age.

End result? Not pretty. No seniority list agreement, no joint contract, LOA 93 indefinitely, and a big DFR lawsuit from the west. East pilots will be paying this "union" assessment bucks like a Vegas slot machine.

​

$200 is just the beginning. $200 is not much in this day? It doesn't matter. The question is... does $200 have value? In addition, the $200 that USAPA is asking for is just the cover charge. There will be plenty of ala carte charges thru assessments of the years. In addition, one of the reason why USAPA wants money is becuase it doesn't have free labor: volunteers. Just like ALPA and other unions, its a small percentage of volunteers doing most of the work.

If USAPA was such a great revolution, then you'd think more guys would be volunteering!! But just like ALPA's problems, its really about "what's in it for me"

 

[PCL_128]

SWA, UPS, AirTran, APA...how on earth have they made it without ALPA I wonder?

They haven't. Every single one of them sends tons of money to ALPA to pay for various services. They couldn't survive without ALPA's help.

 

[Guppiedriver]

The same way the APA, NPA, SWAPA, and IPA manage to fund themselves. Amazing that they're still around to this date!

stlflyguy

UCRAPA has zero in common with those other unions. If UCRAPA is successful, they will have 1800 non-dues paying non-members. All of which we be donating their dues money and then some to contribute to UCRAPA's demise.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

They haven't. Every single one of them sends tons of money to ALPA to pay for various services. They couldn't survive without ALPA's help.

Now that's the part they never seem to get!! Every single independant airline union buys services from ALPA. Now USAPA thinks it can hire one if it's first officers to head up aero medical. Aside from the major conflict of interest here my big question is why this first officer is flying instead of practicing medicine!?!?

Dr. Hudson spent years, YEARS!! developing a relationship with the FAA and usapa thinks they can march in and duplicate that????? Two words come to mind, CRACK KILLS!!!!!

WD.

 

[PCL_128]

Now that's the part they never seem to get!! Every single independant airline union buys services from ALPA. Now USAPA thinks it can hire one if it's first officers to head up aero medical. Aside from the major conflict of interest here my big question is why this first officer is flying instead of practicing medicine!?!?

Dr. Hudson spent years, YEARS!! developing a relationship with the FAA and usapa thinks they can march in and duplicate that????? Two words come to mind, CRACK KILLS!!!!!

WD.

Dr. Hudson is one of the greatest resources that ALPA has. That guy is worth his weight in gold. We used to have a pilot in charge of handling Aeromedical issues at AirTran. Thankfully he resigned and we've got a contract now with a real group of doctors called VFS. Still not as good as ALPA Aeromedical, but much better than this crazy idea of having line pilots handling medical issues.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Dr. Hudson is one of the greatest resources that ALPA has. That guy is worth his weight in gold. We used to have a pilot in charge of handling Aeromedical issues at AirTran. Thankfully he resigned and we've got a contract now with a real group of doctors called VFS. Still not as good as ALPA Aeromedical, but much better than this crazy idea of having line pilots handling medical issues.

I agree about Dr. Hudson. I had the opportunity to meet him last month for the first time. Like I said the relationship between ALPA medical and the FAA have been forged over years.

WD.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

The Easthole Scabs would figure out...too late, that once again, they've shot themselves in the foot...not aircraft,....foot.

I don't care who you are. That's funny!