USAirways East losing respect.

[acarpe3448]

I am being told that the east pilot reps are putting out hot lines to ALPA National and John Prader to throw out this list. Well to that I say GET REAL!!!! You people are really something, you never once gave an inch never once showed any sense of fairness. When the 757 issues came up you offered that which was never in your control (pay protection) which is up to the company not the pilot group. We got a lousey 7 capt seats to be given AFTER the integration. The east pilots get seats that day while we wait for two years. We still have yet to get those seats. Result?? AWA pilot group screwed!

When the E190's came up we shook hands on a deal broke bread together only to be told later that no deal was ever done unless it was by resolution. Result?? AWA pilot group screwed again!

Then you cried like babies to Parker about our pass privledges and they should be based on seniority. So what happens? Our contract is once again violated in favor of the east to give them what the cried over. Result?? AWA pilot group screwed again!

We came to you with open arms snached you from the jaws of unemployment and liquidation without so much as a thank you! We made several attempts to work out a fair solution to this integration and you refused. Your only offer was DOH or nothing. We went to mediation with fairness in our hearts and on our minds but all you could see was DOH!! You expect to rebuild your careers on the backs of the AWA pilot group and we are just supposed to like it and move on!! We went thru the entire integration case again with fair play in mind and once again you came with that DOH B.S.!!! The final straw was the arbitrator saying come back on Feb 21st with a plan OTHER than DOH. The AWA pilot group again willing to bend even further and what did you do?? Made yet another arguement for DOH.

You wanted the third part decision and that's just what you got. Suck it up and be REAL men and women about this an move on. IT'S OVER!!!! now we can either work together or you can tear the place apart with your childish behavior.

WD.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Cry Baby! Mergers Suck!

 

[Turtle21]

You didn't read Brucia very well. You might want to go back and read it again.

 

[Turtle21]

No Jr, I'm up in arms because this is what they wanted!!!
WD.

Oh. OK. So then it is bitchn about bitchn. Thanks.

OH, and you can call me grandpa. I'm OK with that.

 

[d328pilot]

At BOD that prick of a PHL rep had his nose so far up Prater's a$$ that it was discusting. I am sure he is upset that he didnt get the DOH that he wanted. Too bad..

 

[Wino]

Got no dog in this fight so I don't really care, but I read this carefully and this was the screw job of the century for Usair guys.

Sorry, but this neutral person says the cactus pilots got an unbelievable windfall. Beyond belief, and far worse than what was done to the TWA pilots.

This award was fair if there were more fences, but with that puny temporary fence every awa pilots should thank their lucky stars. They won the lottery, and should just shut up and cash the check.

If (9/11 had happened after this merger there would be no usair pilots left on the property in 24 months or so, and certainly no fenced off ghetto like the TWA guys got)

Cheers
Wino

 

[DiverDriver]

Oh don't even get me started on that debate. I had a dog in that fight a while ago too. Just remember I voted no yrs ago. What was the quote? "we need to take concession to save UAL. UAL never saw a dime AWAC management got millions in cuts on the backs of their pilots that never went to UAL.

WD.

Aparently, you still have a dog in that fight Trick Daddy. You're right. Millions went to AWAC which then bridged USAir to prevent liquidation so that you could come save the day. It was not an insignificant deal. And you know where that money came from. So when will the AWAC pilot list be incorporated into this? I mean, you want to be fair and everything. Right TD ?

I guess I just don't understand the hostility right now. Didn't you get what you want from the mediation? Why the new thread to slam AAA?






....and no, I don't really believe AWAC pilots are going on the USAir list.

 

[stlflyguy]

Got no dog in this fight so I don't really care, but I read this carefully and this was the screw job of the century for Usair guys.

Sorry, but this neutral person says the cactus pilots got an unbelievable windfall. Beyond belief, and far worse than what was done to the TWA pilots.

This award was fair if there were more fences, but with that puny temporary fence every awa pilots should thank their lucky stars. They won the lottery, and should just shut up and cash the check.

If (9/11 had happened after this merger there would be no usair pilots left on the property in 24 months or so, and certainly no fenced off ghetto like the TWA guys got)

Cheers
Wino

Well, at least his name is accurate....

stlflyguy
(former TWA)

 

[FDJ2]

This award was fair if there were more fences, but with that puny temporary fence every awa pilots should thank their lucky stars. They won the lottery, and should just shut up and cash the check.

I agree that the west guys ought to quiet down and let the east guys vent a little, since the east's argument for DOH or Length of Service was rightfully shot down. No one brings their "DOH" to a "SENIORITY LIST" integration, they bring their seniority number and what that seniority number can hold. Generally speaking a merger that maintains a pilots relative seniority makes sense, however, I do agree that higher fences may have been appropriate in this case in order to protect the expectations associated with the greater number of retirements from the east. Just so long as it is understood that high fences can also be a two edged sword if you find yourself on the wrong side of the fence when or if the company decides to downsize your base or equipment.

 

[Lear70]

I agree that the west guys ought to quiet down and let the east guys vent a little, since the east's argument for DOH or Length of Service was rightfully shot down. No one brings their "DOH" to a "SENIORITY LIST" integration, they bring their seniority number and what that seniority number can hold. Generally speaking a merger that maintains a pilots relative seniority makes sense, however, I do agree that higher fences may have been appropriate in this case in order to protect the expectations associated with the greater number of retirements from the east. Just so long as it is understood that high fences can also be a two edged sword if you find yourself on the wrong side of the fence when or if the company decides to downsize your base or equipment.

I have no dog in this fight either - my old man retired UAir about 3 years ago.

That said, what FD said above is absolutely correct.

The UAir East boys got their butt handed to them on some small but VERY important details. If I were a betting man (I am), I'd say they got a little too pushy, someone important took offense to it, and voila'...

Incidentally, I don't believe a decert would hold any weight at this point in the game. Might have just before the ruling, but when run through in appeals court, I think it's a loser, as it's an obvious ploy to bypass a legitimate third party ruling that was REQUESTED. Any judge worth his salt will be seeing right through that one...

Time to suck it up, make what you can out of it, then find a cushy expat gig and leave the country. If I were in my mid-50's facing 2 years of 767CA then possibly getting booted, I'd take early retirement while still under 60 and head east to one of those DEC jobs that pays nice and enjoy the travel.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I have no dog in this fight either - my old man retired UAir about 3 years ago.

That said, what FD said above is absolutely correct.

The UAir East boys got their butt handed to them on some small but VERY important details. If I were a betting man (I am), I'd say they got a little too pushy, someone important took offense to it, and voila'...

Incidentally, I don't believe a decert would hold any weight at this point in the game. Might have just before the ruling, but when run through in appeals court, I think it's a loser, as it's an obvious ploy to bypass a legitimate third party ruling that was REQUESTED. Any judge worth his salt will be seeing right through that one...

Time to suck it up, make what you can out of it, then find a cushy expat gig and leave the country. If I were in my mid-50's facing 2 years of 767CA then possibly getting booted, I'd take early retirement while still under 60 and head east to one of those DEC jobs that pays nice and enjoy the travel.

Well, like I said on the other thread; this ruling just pretty much 'guarantees' that the two carriers will Never be integrated, as the new combined list only means something if there is a 'joint contract' and the two operations are integrated, Right. And, now there is pretty much NO incentive for the East guys to ever sign on for a new contract. Without a joint contract/integration, then the East retirements are replaced by east guys, upgrades or furloughees. And, if this goes on for about 6-8 yrs, isn't that pretty much like the 'base fences' that you would normally see in an arbitritor's ruling??

Just for what's it worth. And, Lear, I hope that your integration with MDX goes better than this one.

DA

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Aparently, you still have a dog in that fight Trick Daddy. You're right. Millions went to AWAC which then bridged USAir to prevent liquidation so that you could come save the day. It was not an insignificant deal. And you know where that money came from. So when will the AWAC pilot list be incorporated into this? I mean, you want to be fair and everything. Right TD ?

I guess I just don't understand the hostility right now. Didn't you get what you want from the mediation? Why the new thread to slam AAA?

....and no, I don't really believe AWAC pilots are going on the USAir list.

What up C? The hostiility comes from that fact that when mediation came around during the BOD they refused to be the least bit fair. So enter arbitration and the result remaind the same. I had to listen to them tell me/us that the seniority integration was going to be what it was and we were all going to have to live with it. Now it's them that don't want to live with it.

Now did AWAC work out a deal for list incorporation?? If so then I have no beef. Now as for a slam on AAA, live thru what we have with them then ask that same question.

WD

 

[feitinger]

Oh don't even get me started on that debate. I had a dog in that fight a while ago too. Just remember I voted no yrs ago. What was the quote? "we need to take concession to save UAL. UAL never saw a dime AWAC management got millions in cuts on the backs of their pilots that never went to UAL.

WD.

To be determined in July!!!:uzi:

 

[rtmcfi]

To be determined in July!!!:uzi:

July of what? 2010??

 

[DiverDriver]

What up C? The hostiility comes from that fact that when mediation came around during the BOD they refused to be the least bit fair. So enter arbitration and the result remaind the same. I had to listen to them tell me/us that the seniority integration was going to be what it was and we were all going to have to live with it. Now it's them that don't want to live with it.

Now did AWAC work out a deal for list incorporation?? If so then I have no beef. Now as for a slam on AAA, live thru what we have with them then ask that same question.

WD

Hey TD , AWAC invested in AAA before you guys did and we have a seat on the BOD there still after all the stock that was sold. Since that money came from the pilots shouldn't that mean we get in before AWA pilots? I mean, it's only fair right? Our money came before your money to save the day.

All this was being discussed on the other thread. Why the new thread? Didn't think your post would get much attention?

And TD , I am living through it. I was forced out of my base to this crappy one in PHL. I used to drive to work and now I commute off line two legs.

 

[DiverDriver]

July of what? 2010??

Probably. This is going to get drug out. This is only a hearing in July on the arbitration. No determination will be made I'm sure of it. There will be a hearing. Then they'll want to submit briefs. Etc. Etc. I expect nothing before 2008. ...if even then.


WARNING: Thread hijack in progress. Hi TD!! <waves>