USAirways / America West call from Pilot Recruitment

[ALGFLYR]

That said "EXPRESS" on the side.

Yep, those are the ones. US Airways has had several names on their aircraft over the years. The used to have some that said "SHUTTLE" and others that said "METROJET". And even though Metrojet had different pay and work rules, they were ALL flown by US Airways pilots on the US Airways System Seniority List. The ones that said "EXPRESS" on the side were no exception...

 

[WSurf]

Yep, those are the ones. US Airways has had several names on their aircraft over the years. The used to have some that said "SHUTTLE" and others that said "METROJET". And even though Metrojet had different pay and work rules, they were ALL flown by US Airways pilots on the US Airways System Seniority List. The ones that said "EXPRESS" on the side were no exception...

Well if thats the thinking I guess all the CEL folks are on that list too! Our RJ's and Dash's have Express on them! ;-)

 

[BenderGonzales]

I think it's more than reasonable to deduce that those people who flew an aircraft on the US AIRWAYS CERTIFICATE... that used the callsign "USAIR" were US Airways pilots. I was hired in 1/99 and have no problem with them being on the list. Should I?

 

[MCDU]

What about Delta Express?

 

[loser]

Well if this thread is true, then all PDT and PSA CEL pilots are about to be screwed. They should not be calling poolies to fill any slots, but rather refering to the CEL to honor our flow through.

 

[Crzipilot]

Permanent bid 07-04 has just been put out. 130 more recalls....

 

[trainer8]

Well if thats the thinking I guess all the CEL folks are on that list too! Our RJ's and Dash's have Express on them! ;-)

Well, there 'ya go!!!....

T8

 

[Green]

Dean regularly posts on a yahoo group for MDA pilots. That is where that came from.

Not to re-open this very old argument, but every pilot that flew at MDA was flying an aircraft on the AAA operating certificate and was on the AAA seniority list. The Arbitrator is tasked with combining the two lists, not determining who should be on the lists. Thats like us making an argument that every AWA pilot that flew DHC-8's on the AWA operating certificate should be removed. They flew an aircraft on the AWA certificate (DHC-8) and were on the seniority list. Personally, I think they were over-reaching in trying to remove CEL pilots in hopes to assure our place on the bottom of the list - which is probably where we will end up. And with no expectation of anything different, I think we will be OK with that. But most CEL pilots were active AAA pilots for almost 2 years flying AAA aircraft....

Using that argument it´s absurd to say that the EAST pilots deserve all widebody flying. We had 747´s at AWA which are bigger than anything Airways ever had....

 

[Green]

AG - you seem extremely informed - thanks for all the info ... what do you think about the career prospects of going to US Airways as a new hire on the E190? My other choices - stay at a fractional that treats me well and/or eventually accept a recall to AA (~2000 pilots away from a recall ... anybody's guess as to how long that will take).

I would stick with the AA number. Even assuming several more years in the right seat at AA you will probably have better work rules and higher career earnings. Our mec-jnc won´t even ask for AA concessionary rates (when you factor in a superior retirment). I believe that when AA gets their next contract they are going to leave lcc permanently in the dust.

Big red flags go up when you hear your own union reps (lcc reps) worrying about costing the company too much.

 

[BeCareful!]

But most CEL pilots were active AAA pilots for almost 2 years flying AAA aircraft....

Correct. And there were about 1700 pilots senior to them who were not called to those positions. A recall out of seniority if I've ever seen one.

Therefore: 1) I WANT MY STOCK, and 2) I WANT MY TIME IN SERVICE ADJUSTED.

Thank you. Get back to me with the details.

BC

 

[BenderGonzales]

I was called...(I declined)Weren't you called? Or were you frozen at your J4J carrier and unable to accept the position when it was available?

 

[ALGFLYR]

Correct. And there were about 1700 pilots senior to them who were not called to those positions. A recall out of seniority if I've ever seen one.

Therefore: 1) I WANT MY STOCK, and 2) I WANT MY TIME IN SERVICE ADJUSTED.

Thank you. Get back to me with the details.

BC

EVERY pilot on the APL, ALL 1700, were offered a MDA position, with maybe the exception of those wanting to go but were held at a J4J carrier. When the first class of CEL pilots went to MDA, they knew they were going to be on the AAA seniority list as an AAA pilot. Period. In order for the first CEL pilots to bid over, that meant EVERY APL pilot was offered a position and accepted or passed (again with maybe the exception of those held at a J4J carrier).

As far as adjusted LOS, if someone junior to you was given LOS credit for MDA, and you did not go, you were brought up to there LOS to preserve relative position on the seniority list.

 

[ALGFLYR]

As far as adjusted LOS, if someone junior to you was given LOS credit for MDA, and you did not go, you were brought up to there LOS to preserve relative position on the seniority list.

Just another thought on this so as not to cause confusion...

LOS is only being used for seniority list integration. Not one pilot at MDA, APL or CEL, got any credit for longevity at MDA. If you were at AAA for 2 years before being furloughed, you will go back on the 3 year pay scale. If the guy junior to you was also at AAA for 2 years before furlough and then went to MDA for 2 years, when he is recalled, he will also be on the 3 year pay scale, with no credit for time in service at MDA...

 

[BeCareful!]

Wrong on a few points, ALG...

There are points on the list where people junior to others have a longer time in service. I've seen it.

Also, you're correct that many were offered MDA positions. MDA positions, back when we wistfully thought there actually was an MDA. Now, we find out it was mainline, nothing more, nothing less.

I was held at a J4J carrier and was not allowed to go back to mainline....oops....I mean, MDA....er, Mainline.

This was not supposed to happen, and I've been left out of a hell of a lot of stock in the process.

 

[MK82Man]

Ify2slo & Formula1: Here are some thoughts. First off, the 190 might not be much of a deal but at 40K at year, but it isn’t the kiss of death. You’d be based in Philly, so you have to sign up to live there or close by. I would not recommend commuting into Philly. A step backwards pay wise from where you are today, most likely. One of the better things about going to the 190 on the East side is a 12 month lock. I think we advertised on the West that it would be an 18 month lock (might have just been for the Capt upgrade). No FOs from the West are leaving mainline for East 190 FO billets. Anyway, after 12 months you can bid out and you could bid West 757, 737, Airbus FO if you seniority would hold it – assuming since you interviewed West, you really want West. The Million Dollar question is “what will your seniority hold one year from now.” At a minimum, you could bid East Big Jet equipment and your pay would go up 50% as you move out of the 190 (probably into reserve though). Right now, it is a gamble, but with so many East guys bypassing, the company is really in the dark. Once we go all the way down the list and nobody wants the 190, you would be on the top of the stack of new hire 190 FOs – a great deal, maybe not, but probably an ok deal, at least you could control your bids and vacation some. If in fact, large numbers of East guys bypass on big jet equipment (IE never intend to come back, or mil leave of absence) as the company works the way down and then again back up the list, it might forecast big jet and 190 jet hiring off the street in early 08. IF so, you would move out of the 190 and into big jets and be senior to some new hire (big jet dude) in mid/late 08. You might move out of the 190 and right into a line on Big Jets while the new hire stays on reserve. So many East guys have moved on and into new lives, nobody knows how many will really come back.

It is indeed a gamble but it looks like we will make money in the first quarter and the next six months should be profitable. I’d guess our combined contract will raise our wages at least 10% or so from the West standard which would be a nice increase for the East guys from where they are now. Of course we are all hoping/committed to more. Expect some large aircraft order to be announced in the next 60 days and if you are young enough, you might be able to fly it 10/15 years from now. Age 60 rule and East Retirement numbers will impact everyone’s lifestyle. Flow through, JFJ, PSA, MDA – all of those will be considered by the arbitrator (as far as the combined list) and who knows where East, West, & others will end up on the combined list. I agree any new hire will be at the end of the arbitrator’s list ... just our seniority list in the future. In the absence of any current agreed to East/West flow through agreements (no company announcements that I know of so far), I’d expect guys who come to mainline US after you (accepting the 190) would in fact be placed below you on the new list.

Hard to forecast for sure. Take stock of your personal life and if you can afford to gamble a little, leap out and take the 190. If you want to straddle the fence for a while, ok, but you would probably have to re-interview in the future. Most guys advise interviewees to take the first airline job you are offered and then springboard from there. Easier to find new work when you have work. Good luck in your decision.