USAir East West NIC Award Resolution? Very soon!

[Flybywire44]

I flew with the East Alpa rep who negotiated the NIC MOU with West ALPA. The MOU never went anywhere because West/East could not negotiate the document before USAPA threw out both Alpa groups.

Becket, Judge Silver did not say that Nic was binding. Rather she gave East a lot of liberty to do what ever they want and risk a DFR later. Why was Silver so "Gray?"

AOL is not going to win this pissing contest with the East group. A fifth of the group will retire before the seniority list is settled. A third to half of the the East group will retire before any DFR would be settled—this is reality; the East mentality you're dealing with does not care and will retire soon.

You MAY eventually settle a DFR, but the burden will be on AOL to prove they were damaged. Unlike TWA pilots, AOL will have to prove that West pilots were damaged while enjoying tremendous movement, contract & QOL improvements that USAPA may negotiate in part with APA/LCC.

It took two parties to create this situation. The loudest political elements in both East and West pilot unions were also the most disingenuous and responsible.

West pilots experienced a huge win fall from Nicolau—It would seem too good to be true now.

 

[Turtle21]

I flew with the East Alpa rep who negotiated the NIC MOU with West ALPA. The MOU never went anywhere because West/East could not negotiate the document before USAPA threw out both Alpa groups.

Becket, Judge Silver did not say that Nic was binding. Rather she gave East a lot of liberty to do what ever they want and risk a DFR later. Why was Silver so "Gray?"

AOL is not going to win this pissing contest with the East group. A fifth of the group will retire before the seniority list is settled. A third to half of the the East group will retire before any DFR would be settled—this is reality; the East mentality you're dealing with does not care and will retire soon.

You MAY eventually settle a DFR, but the burden will be on AOL to prove they were damaged. Unlike TWA pilots, AOL will have to prove that West pilots were damaged while enjoying tremendous movement, contract & QOL improvements that USAPA may negotiate in part with APA/LCC.

It took two parties to create this situation. The loudest political elements in both East and West pilot unions were also the most disingenuous and responsible.

West pilots experienced a huge win fall from Nicolau—It would seem too good to be true now.

The West is in complete denial. No legitimate court has ever required USAPA to use the ALPA Nic list.. only Judge Wake, the West golfing buddy, ever attempted to manipulate court proceedings to the point that the Nic became an injunction.. but he got his hiney spanked.

The courts have repeatedly asserted USAPA and the company can use whatever bargaining positions they want to... with the caveat that a union has a wide range of reasonableness to make their decisions.

No way AOL will ever win any damages... the West opposed pay parity for the East, the West brags they are paid 15% more than East pilots in pay and benefits, and the West has been benefitting from a shift of 24% of East flying to West crews which resulted in several years of delays to East hiring.

For the life of me I can't figure out why they complain so much!

 

[TWA Dude]

the West opposed pay parity for the East,...

As usual, most of your post is just chest-thumping opinion without basis in fact. But your above statement is a lie by omission. The West supported pay parity for the East up until the point the East withdrew from joint contract talks and started the war against our seniority. Failing to mention that little tidbit makes you a liar.

the West brags they are paid 15% more than East pilots in pay and benefits,

It's only because of the East's idiocy that you didn't get a raise back in 2007 when Doug was actually motivated to sign a contract.

and the West has been benefitting from a shift of 24% of East flying to West crews which resulted in several years of delays to East hiring.

Another lie. By the Transition Agreement both sides have minimum block-hour requirements. I don't know about the East, but the West has been at that minimum for several years. Where the company makes us fly is irrelevant. And considering the complete stagnation on the West you've got a lot of nerve bragging about ANY hiring on the East.

 

[Turtle21]

Neither you or I decided that all the hiring is on the East, and will continue to be at least through next year. The economic reality dictates it. DUI would hire guys on the West if he needed pilots out there. DUI would replace the retiring pilots on the West if he didn't already have an overage of pilots out West. DUI would fly his West min block hours out West if there was enough business out there.. It costs money to fly empty planes from PHX out to locations were he can get profitable load factors. There will never be any harmed discovered for the West pilots because none has ever occurred.

 

[B-atch]

Every Federal Judge has pinned the Nic on USAPA. USAPA plays stupid. They don't care if they go BK in court because USAPA knows damn well their days are numbered no matter what. They just want to get something ratified because they are under the very mistaken idea that will solidify DOH.

I could go on and on correcting your completely clueless ass but ill just leave you with the very good advice to simply STFU about things you have no understanding of.

Enlighten us, oh mighty Beecker...Why did Jdg. Silver NOT mandate/impose the Nic?? If the AOL cult so vehemently claim that the Nic is "binding", why did the good Judge not enforce it??.....Oh and on a side note, you should consider prozac.. Your mood has become increasingly...Agitated..

 

[Bringupthebird]

It costs money to fly empty planes from PHX out to locations were he can get profitable load factors. There will never be any harmed discovered for the West pilots because none has ever occurred.

Lay off the mushrooms!

Empty airplanes, eh? Where do you work?

Damages? USAPA's sole reason for formation was to disadvantage the west and that is documented fact. Damages will be easy and the assessment of your fresh captain's paycheck will be painful.

The only reason Silver did not spank USAPA instead of warn them was that she holds out hope they will come to their senses and not deliberately do something they know will result in an easily won lawsuit against them. However, once they ratify that contract, all hope for the east is gone.

The obvious foot dragging on that contract by USAPA in order to preserve the status quo at the expense of the west is another very easy charge to prove and yield $$$ for the west.

Whoever told you you could evade the responsibility for abiding by Binding Arbitration without any consequence was probably lying to you in order to get your union dues.

Don't be so gullible next time.

 

[becket]

Enlighten us, oh mighty Beecker...Why did Jdg. Silver NOT mandate/impose the Nic?? If the AOL cult so vehemently claim that the Nic is "binding", why did the good Judge not enforce it??.....Oh and on a side note, you should consider prozac.. Your mood has become increasingly...Agitated..

Agitated by clueless idiots that actually believe the USAPA lies. Silver didn't impose the Nic...which she clearly eluded SHE WANTED TO BUT COULDN'T because of the 9ths idiotic ruling that has the parties chasing their tails in an endless loop. The 9th was dumb enough to believe USAPA was ever going to be willing to not blatantly screw the west despite their clear DFR responsibilities. They don't understand that USAPA has no plans to be on any property in a few years. USAPA can go for broke and burn down the house. No union in history has been wired like those scabs so I guess I could cut the 9 th some slack for not understanding what they were looking at.

Do you actually believe if you ratified a DOH contract, it would survive injunction? If you ACTUALLY believe that, exactly which neutral 3rd party has ever indicated such? Silver said, in plain English that abandoning the Nic puts them on "dangerous ground". The 9th spoke of the "unquestionably ripe dfr". Did you forget that part? Where in those statements are you deriving your unfettered freedom to a DOH cram down?

This experiment is going to be the biggest financial failure of your career...aside from not walking away from US Air after your furlough ....like 85% of your 99 hire generation was wise enough to do.

 

[Turtle21]

Lay off the mushrooms!

Empty airplanes, eh? Where do you work?

Damages? USAPA's sole reason for formation was to disadvantage the west and that is documented fact. Damages will be easy and the assessment of your fresh captain's paycheck will be painful.

The only reason Silver did not spank USAPA instead of warn them was that she holds out hope they will come to their senses and not deliberately do something they know will result in an easily won lawsuit against them. However, once they ratify that contract, all hope for the east is gone.

The obvious foot dragging on that contract by USAPA in order to preserve the status quo at the expense of the west is another very easy charge to prove and yield $$$ for the west.

Whoever told you you could evade the responsibility for abiding by Binding Arbitration without any consequence was probably lying to you in order to get your union dues.

Don't be so gullible next time.

The court refuses to make it binding now. There is no basis to find damages in the future. But your obsession and cult faith is entertaining.

 

[dollacrackho]

Airways met with amr creditors today. hopefully they'll make some kind of decision soon and either way we can move forward and forget about this sh!t show.

 

[Turtle21]

Airways met with amr creditors today. hopefully they'll make some kind of decision soon and either way we can move forward and forget about this sh!t show.

The show will go on. A different episode, certainly... but the show in aviation will go on as long as there are pilots that can afford to buy a beer at the bar of grumbling.